male/female sharing enclosure?

[Tputtwhatwhat]

Hello cham-forums community!

I am brand new to the hobby, and will be getting my first male panther in about 3 weeks. I have been doing a TON of research, but know it's always helpful to hear first hand experiences from handlers. My question is in regards to keeping a male and female in the same enclosure. I know that this topic is probably covered in other threads/web sites. But, I haven't been able to tell if it is only appropriate when trying to breed... or if many handlers have a male and female coupled full time?? thanks in advance for responses

p.s. I dont even have my cham yet, and I'm totally addicted to the hobby. gotta be one of the most exciting animals to keep. just stating the obvious, lol.

 

[satch4684]

wait for more experienced to answer, haha, but I think the bottom line is only to breed.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Keep them seperated at all times visually and physically until the female is ready to breed. Then introduce male to her enclosure.

 

[Tputtwhatwhat]

oh ok. I was hoping to add a female eventually, but now i know better.

 

[Rocky]

The reason you don't want them to see each other is because the male will keep showing off towards the female and if the female isn't receptive she will stress out trying to get away from him.

The reason you don't want them in the same cage together is because generally the female will be stressed out the entire time. If they are growing up, generally one will become dominant and get all the food, bully the other out of basking spots, and the non-dominant will generally slowly start to get in really bad shape.

Some chameleon species can be kept together in male-female groups, but not panthers.

If you are considering breeding chameleons, I would suggest keeping one for a while then doing a lot of research. It is very expensive and time consuming.


- On a side not, if you had a large room / free range / cage ranging from 10ft x 10ft x 10 ft you could probably keep them together if you had 2 basking spots and 2 feeding spots.

 

[Tputtwhatwhat]

@rocky- Thanks for your help. I understand it now. Oh, and in regards to me breeding.... don't worry, I have no plans on breeding anytime soon(if ever). I will leave that to much more experienced keepers for now. although I must admit, when considering the "retail value" of panthers in particular.... It SEEMS pretty dang lucrative. But, I'm sure there is a lot of work before profits.

 

[jeanjacket812]

Let me tell you about yesterdays experience. I got a new male in hes 1.5 months old. My female is 2 months old. When I got the male in I was still dialing in his enclosure so I figured I'd put him in with the female for half an hour while I finished up. The female immediatley fired up hissed gaped and all that. The poor new baby didnt know what to do, I of course immediately seperated them. I thought that since they were so young that they wouldn't care to be together for 30 minutes but that was not the case! On a side note it was kind of cool to see my female get mad I didn't think she had it in her!

 

[Tputtwhatwhat]

haha wow, all happened instantly huh? How are you planning on keeping them from seeing each other? a towel draped between the cages? separate rooms?

 

[AReptile]

Hmm that's weird lol, supposedly they can be housed together as young babies. I know where I got my veiled there were several others with her and they all seemed to be getting along with each other.

 

[jeanjacket812]

haha wow, all happened instantly huh? How are you planning on keeping them from seeing each other? a towel draped between the cages? separate rooms?

Yah the kicker of the situation was that the female rarely ever hangs out around in the cage she basks in the morning, eats, drinks then kinda hangs out in the plant. As soon as she saw the baby she went right to the center of the cage to assert her dominance shes always been so calm, she saw the little man and flipped must be a man hater.It did happen dang near instantly, she saw him and inflated I thought she would float away! I just have them across the room now and its all good.

 

[AReptile]

Ha that's crazy! she was bigger than the male then right??

 

[jeanjacket812]

Ha that's crazy! she was bigger than the male then right??

Barely bigger maybe like a 1/4 inch or somethin and she has more mass. Yah I thought that with them being that young that they would be fine for a couple minutes, I guess she was just used to her territory and didn't like to share! I felt so bad for the poor baby though he just came out his cup and already got punked out!

 

[luevelvet]

From birth babies generally tolerate each other until a certain age. But once separated, they sort of become accustomed to their new found solitude.

Never assume two previously separated animals will get along.

Luis

 

[Tputtwhatwhat]

well at least i got a clear cut answer from this thread topic. no varying opinions here... haha. my original idea= not good idea

 

[Elizadolots]

well at least i got a clear cut answer from this thread topic. no varying opinions here... haha. my original idea= not good idea

That, all by itself deserves a prize.

 

[stickytongue]

The reason you don't want them to see each other is because the male will keep showing off towards the female and if the female isn't receptive she will stress out trying to get away from him.

The reason you don't want them in the same cage together is because generally the female will be stressed out the entire time. If they are growing up, generally one will become dominant and get all the food, bully the other out of basking spots, and the non-dominant will generally slowly start to get in really bad shape.

Some chameleon species can be kept together in male-female groups, but not panthers.

If you are considering breeding chameleons, I would suggest keeping one for a while then doing a lot of research. It is very expensive and time consumin


- On a side not, if you had a large room / free range / cage ranging from 10ft x 10ft x 10 ft you could probably keep them together if you had 2 basking spots and 2 feeding spots.

yes, many cham owners are extremely hesitant with having two chams in the same enclosure but! if you have seperate feeding and basking areas and alot of foliage the chams will not compete with eachother for uv and food. you will need to keep a keen eye on both of your chams water, food and uv intake. a lot of space is required as previously stated so to be safe individual enclosures would be easiest. but if you want to expirement with larger setups feel free. just know what you are doing,

 

[dodolah]

if you have seperate feeding and basking areas and alot of foliage the chams will not compete with eachother for uv and food. you will need to keep a keen eye on both of your chams water, food and uv intake. a lot of space is required as previously stated so to be safe individual enclosures would be easiest. but if you want to expirement with larger setups feel free. just know what you are doing,

it is a bad idea to keep male and female together at all time in one cage. That would require a constant attention to the tiniest stress reaction exhibited by either of them. Imho, a larger setup and the attention required to keep a pair of panther or veiled peacefully in a cohabitation would be too much for a new keeper to handle. Keeping one is already quite of a task.. let alone two in such arrangement.

Even an avid keeper will think twice subjecting the chameleons to this situation. Some species can absolutely cohabitate.. But, the common ones (veiled, jackson, flap neck, and panther) are solitary animals.

The one that can exist in a co-habitation is usually trickier and a lot harder to care due to its climate requirement (melleri is one of them).

If you absolutely want to put a male and a female chameleons in one enclosure then I would suggest getting rieppeleon brevicaudatus..
But, do realize that their care is completely different than veiled and panthers.

 

[Carlton]

Yah the kicker of the situation was that the female rarely ever hangs out around in the cage she basks in the morning, eats, drinks then kinda hangs out in the plant. As soon as she saw the baby she went right to the center of the cage to assert her dominance shes always been so calm, she saw the little man and flipped must be a man hater.It did happen dang near instantly, she saw him and inflated I thought she would float away! I just have them across the room now and its all good.

Well, she's been alone in her own turf so she is bound to object to another cham showing up suddenly. It may not have mattered if the newcomer was male or female. It was an intruder to be chased away.

 

[Carlton]

yes, many cham owners are extremely hesitant with having two chams in the same enclosure but! if you have seperate feeding and basking areas and alot of foliage the chams will not compete with eachother for uv and food. you will need to keep a keen eye on both of your chams water, food and uv intake. a lot of space is required as previously stated so to be safe individual enclosures would be easiest. but if you want to expirement with larger setups feel free. just know what you are doing,

Part of the problem suggesting this is perception...what an experienced keeper would consider "a lot of space" may be completely different than what a newbie considers it to be. After all, most newbies who have kept other common herps have things that fit into pretty small terrarium tanks or critter keepers. Even a minimal cham cage is much larger than any of these. What most newbies expect to be able to keep a cham in is usually too small in my experience.

Competition isn't always for something as obvious as food or UV. The chams will compete for light, humid hiding areas, personal territories, height dominance, and their pick of every microclimate a cage offers. Competitive stress can be very subtle but the point is, it is constant and unrelenting. That is the problem. In the wild two chams have the freedom to space themselves as close to or far apart as they want. In captivity they don't. The one who can't handle it suffers.

 

[Carlton]

I have been doing a TON of research, but know it's always helpful to hear first hand experiences from handlers. I know that this topic is probably covered in other threads/web sites. But, I haven't been able to tell if it is only appropriate when trying to breed...

I'm curious...in all the research you say you have done did NONE of the sites or articles say to house chams individually? That seems odd. I'm not trying to pick on you or the work you've already done (which is GREAT!), but I'd want to know what sites have such poor information and those particular sources came up more easily than the "good" stuff.

Or, maybe you were reading some outdated books?

The good thing is you asked. Your chams will thank you!