Kidney Failure

[GiraffeSpots]

Hi Forum Fam,

I usually tend to admire everyone from afar, but I could really use some positive vibes, thoughts and prayers sent my way. A couple days ago my little man started closing his eyes and started having runny stool. He was still eating fine and looked great, but as paranoid as I am I immediately rushed him to his doctor and they were able to see him and get blood work done and provide me with a container for fecal float. This was on Friday. Bloodwork came back this afternoon and his doctor called me and told me to rush him in this evening. Have spent the last 4 hours here going through the past few days and trying to figure out what happened. His kidneys are not happy right now, iron levels are a bit wonky and one of his enzymes is highly elevated to the point where his body is eating the muscle. (Something to the tune of 10x the normal amount) all the technical terms are escaping me right now as I’m in shambles. She said she’s stumped as to what could be going on. He could’ve possibly ingested a toxin, she said there are viral reptile diseases that can sometimes stay dormant and show later in life but thats rare. She’s collaborating with some of her other colleagues tmrw to try to see what could be going on. She said his blood work indicates he doesn’t have long, but physically he still looks great, and his X-rays look good too. She’s hoping flushing his system will allow his kidneys to rest a bit and start to heal. If it is chronic kidney injury, she said chameleons have gone on to live lives as such but it requires a bit of adjusting. She started him on an antibiotic and provided him fluids. My sweet prince will be spending the night with them over the next few days, so they can provide round the clock care.

I’ve been reading a bunch of medical articles that @kinyonga had posted but has anyone gone through this before? I am preparing for the worst but he’s been a fighter since he was a baby and I know he’s got that same spunky fight left in him.

 

[GiraffeSpots]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • 2 year old male veiled chameleon. I’ve had him since he was 1 month old
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Not very often. So far I’ve only held him to give him medicine when he was a baby. He’ll also come to me from time to time to be places in his green room to bask.
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • He eats gut loaded crickets, dubias, the occasional super worm, and maybe 1 or 2 hornworms a month, and black soldier larva. They are gutloaded with Bug burger. He eats 1-2 times a day about 2-3 insects each session. 2-3 times a week
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Flukers without D3 every feeding and repashy loD 2 times a month, and repashy multivitamin weekly.
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • We have a dripper as well as misting sessions. We use a handheld automatic mister and usually mist for 2 mins at a time 2x a day. He usually only drinks from the dripper.
• Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • Urates are white with no sign of yellow or orange. His poop is what I would consider normal consistency, nothing out of the ordinary and all insects are digested thoroughly. He’s been treated for coccidia when he was about 3 months old. His most recent fecal I am still waiting on the results.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • When I first got him, he would always make a whining sound and sure enough it was the beginnings of a URI. They performed an X-ray since he was too small for blood work and vet saw a tiny spot in one of his lungs and prescribed him an antibiotic injection we gave him every 3 days for 7 doses and increased his humidity. He hasn’t made any noises since then nor shown any respiratory issues. When he was about 3 months he got parasites and was treated and tested clean after. He also had an eye issue when he was about 2 months old, he had to have eye surgery to have a growth that was in his eye, turned out to be a bunch of gunk and shed. They did a small laceration but he healed nicely and his eye function wasn’t affected. This was this last major health issue he experienced.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • 24x24x48 Reptibreeze screened cage. To increase the humidity, we clinged the two side panels and back panel with clear window film. It is currently still on.
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Arcadia 6% T5 linear bulb across the middle of cage from 8-8 and Flukers 100 watt dome heating lamp also on from 8-8
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • I use an infrared thermometer to measure the temp of his enclosure for his vet visits. His basking spot it 87 and 8 inches from the dome lamp. His cool spot is 76 and his low temp at night is 68
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Usually it is around 50-55%. We wrapped the side and back panels with plastic to keep the humidity stable. We also use a hygrometer (electronic) to measure and is placed in the middle of his cage.
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Yes, some bromeliads, a corn plant, ficus, umbrella tree
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • In the guest room on the second floor. It isn’t near any vents and there is no fan running in there not much foot traffic either. The cage is on a table that is about 24in high so I would say it’s probably about 2 feet from the ground.
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • I am located in Central North Carolina

 

[Ghostbirb]

Hi Forum Fam,

I usually tend to admire everyone from afar, but I could really use some positive vibes, thoughts and prayers sent my way. A couple days ago my little man started closing his eyes and started having runny stool. He was still eating fine and looked great, but as paranoid as I am I immediately rushed him to his doctor and they were able to see him and get blood work done and provide me with a container for fecal float. This was on Friday. Bloodwork came back this afternoon and his doctor called me and told me to rush him in this evening. Have spent the last 4 hours here going through the past few days and trying to figure out what happened. His kidneys are not happy right now, iron levels are a bit wonky and one of his enzymes is highly elevated to the point where his body is eating the muscle. (Something to the tune of 10x the normal amount) all the technical terms are escaping me right now as I’m in shambles. She said she’s stumped as to what could be going on. He could’ve possibly ingested a toxin, she said there are viral reptile diseases that can sometimes stay dormant and show later in life but thats rare. She’s collaborating with some of her other colleagues tmrw to try to see what could be going on. She said his blood work indicates he doesn’t have long, but physically he still looks great, and his X-rays look good too. She’s hoping flushing his system will allow his kidneys to rest a bit and start to heal. If it is chronic kidney injury, she said chameleons have gone on to live lives as such but it requires a bit of adjusting. She started him on an antibiotic and provided him fluids. My sweet prince will be spending the night with them over the next few days, so they can provide round the clock care.

I’ve been reading a bunch of medical articles that @kinyonga had posted but has anyone gone through this before? I am preparing for the worst but he’s been a fighter since he was a baby and I know he’s got that same spunky fight left in him.

I’m sorry this is happening to you guys sending you hugs and love❤

 

[Paradalis]

I am so sorry you are going through this. Your husbandry looks good. Unfortunately I do not have any advice on this issue. Sending you a virtual hug We will get through this together . I will tag some people who are on the forum a lot and have a lot of knowledge on chameleons. @MissSkittles @Beman @kinyonga Hope this helps

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I too am so very sorry for all that you and your guy are going thru. The only thing I see in your husbandry is that there is no need to give him an additional multivitamin every week - the Repashy LoD is a combination multivitamin and D3 and you’re giving it correctly. While I don’t know if that would be enough to cause something like this, do let your vet know. Repashy multivitamins contain preformed vitamin A, which like the D3 is fat soluble.
I’m guessing one of the terms of what he has is rhabdomyolysis. That seems to me to be a strange thing for a chameleon to get. I can’t find anything specific about it to reptiles other than the second link. The first is related to humans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...often,as neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS)
https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?pId=26434&catId=162281&id=10109911
The cause may not be found, but in my basic medical knowledge (as a human nurse) it sounds like your vet is doing all he/she can. My heart goes out to you and your chameleon and you have my prayers for him to recover fully.

 

[GiraffeSpots]

@Ghostbirb, @Paradalis, and @MissSkittles Thank you for all the hugs, prayers, and well wishes. Truly, they are appreciated beyond words. The amount of support and love that is given across this entire community is unmatched. I hope everyone's morning is going well.

When I spoke to the vet this morning, I reminded her of the multivitamin regimen so she could take it into consideration.

This morning has been rough on myself and my partner, but he is reminding me that we need to take care of ourselves, so that we can be better suited to fight for our little guy. Due to work, I wasn't able to see him this morning, but my partner was able to spend some time with him. He said he looks good. He's his normal vibrant colors, eyes are not sunken in, tail is still a little curly but still seems somewhat weak. His grip is still there also. He slept throughout the night and only moved once. (ever since he hasn't been feeling well, he's been "sleepwalking" or moving positions vs normally when he stays in one spot the whole night) They will be treating him with another round of fluids and continue antibiotics. I have visitation with him later this evening. Thank you again to all for keeping my little guy in your thoughts.

 

[Beman]

So husbandry looks pretty spot on... What exactly is the repashy multivitamin that you are giving weekly? The LoD would not cause this every other week.

 

[GiraffeSpots]

Morning @Beman. It is Repashy Supervite.

 

[Beman]

Morning @Beman. It is Repashy Supervite.

That was my worry.... This one is not recommended for chams. Extremely high vitamin A and has D3.
Here is the info on this.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS​

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Vitamin A 200,000 IU/lb, Vitamin D 20,000 IU/lb, Vitamin E 2,000 IU/lb, Vitamin K (Metadione) 30 mg/lb, Vitamin C (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate) 2,500 mg/lb, Vitamin B1 (Thiamine HCL) 40 mg/lb, Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 70 mg/lb, Vitamin B5 (d-Calcium Pantothenate) 130 mg/lb, Niacin 450 mg/lb, Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 55 mg/lb, Vitamin B12 .4 mg/lb, Folic Acid 20 mg/lb, Biotin 2 mg/lb, Beta Carotene 500 mg/lb.


This is the repashy LoD version.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS​

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Calcium min. 20%, Sodium min. 1%, Magnesium min. .3%, Manganese min. 350 mg/kg, Zinc min. 350 mg/kg, Copper min. 150 mg/kg, Vitamin A min. 80,000 IU/lb, Vitamin D min. 8,000 IU/lb, Vitamin E min. 800 IU/lb.

Now here is the issue both A and D3 create toxicity in the body due to the fact that they are fat soluble. Both can take months to clear from the body. They are not water soluble so they just store until they naturally reduce. D3 poisoning can actually pull calcium from the bones. Causes all sorts of issues.
Some info....
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/the-balance-between-vitamins-d3-and-a.2408/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/

I would talk to your vet about this... Since they are working with other reptile vets they would have far more info then I do. I just know it is not good and can really compromise their system.

Typically you would pull a cham off of the supplements and only use calcium without D3 at all feedings. Allowing for the time for the toxic levels to decrease in the chams body.

 

[GiraffeSpots]

@Beman You're a godsend! I took all this information and sent it over immediately to her and the team so they could take a look at it. They called me about 5 mins ago to tell me he just received some fluids and today's dose of the antibiotic. He is still stable and well, vibrant, and hanging in there. I plan to leave the office soon and head over there. Thank you all <3

 

[Beman]

@Beman You're a godsend! I took all this information and sent it over immediately to her and the team so they could take a look at it. They called me about 5 mins ago to tell me he just received some fluids and today's dose of the antibiotic. He is still stable and well, vibrant, and hanging in there. I plan to leave the office soon and head over there. Thank you all <3

Your welcome. I really hope he pulls through. Sending good vibes your way hun.

 

[yungzerk]

Hi Forum Fam,

I usually tend to admire everyone from afar, but I could really use some positive vibes, thoughts and prayers sent my way. A couple days ago my little man started closing his eyes and started having runny stool. He was still eating fine and looked great, but as paranoid as I am I immediately rushed him to his doctor and they were able to see him and get blood work done and provide me with a container for fecal float. This was on Friday. Bloodwork came back this afternoon and his doctor called me and told me to rush him in this evening. Have spent the last 4 hours here going through the past few days and trying to figure out what happened. His kidneys are not happy right now, iron levels are a bit wonky and one of his enzymes is highly elevated to the point where his body is eating the muscle. (Something to the tune of 10x the normal amount) all the technical terms are escaping me right now as I’m in shambles. She said she’s stumped as to what could be going on. He could’ve possibly ingested a toxin, she said there are viral reptile diseases that can sometimes stay dormant and show later in life but thats rare. She’s collaborating with some of her other colleagues tmrw to try to see what could be going on. She said his blood work indicates he doesn’t have long, but physically he still looks great, and his X-rays look good too. She’s hoping flushing his system will allow his kidneys to rest a bit and start to heal. If it is chronic kidney injury, she said chameleons have gone on to live lives as such but it requires a bit of adjusting. She started him on an antibiotic and provided him fluids. My sweet prince will be spending the night with them over the next few days, so they can provide round the clock care.

I’ve been reading a bunch of medical articles that @kinyonga had posted but has anyone gone through this before? I am preparing for the worst but he’s been a fighter since he was a baby and I know he’s got that same spunky fight left in him.

your cham is in my thoughts i’m hoping for the best and a speedy recovery

 

[Lindasjackson]

I’m praying for your little guy!

 

[CalamityCrow]

Praying for your little man! YOu're doing SO much to help him - it's inspiring. Sending good vibes and I hope they can sort out what's going on and reverse/treat it. Please keep us updated!

 

[GiraffeSpots]

@yungzerk, @Lindasjackson, and @CalamityCrow thank you for all of your support and kind words. Reading everyone’s messages brings a smile to my face during this difficult time. I hope everyone has had a peaceful night and please just give your babies a little extra love tonight.

I was able to visit with him this evening. When he saw me, I like to think he recognized me. He looked in my direction and started sporting his pretty greens. Both eyes were alert and a little bit more plumped up. He did get dark from time to time and at one point he did this weird thing where it was almost as if something spooked him? He tensed up, put his defensive colors on and ran up my arm he then just hung out for a bit and his colors returned. I’m hoping something did spook him and it wasn’t his body going out of whack and causing him to jolt. as I was leaving, they were going to give him fluids and some meds. They’re keeping him in an incubator of sorts right now to allow him to rest? Not sure, but it was scary to see him in that. I’m feeling a little more optimistic, since their report seemed to be pretty positive. He also gained 3 grams, and had a bm this morning. His doc wasn’t able provide me a full summary of her meeting with the other doctors today which I understand I’m sure she’s super busy. I hope my sweet prince gets some rest tonight and has a better morning.

Thank you all again for the gigantic hug.

 

[yungzerk]

@yungzerk, @Lindasjackson, and @CalamityCrow thank you for all of your support and kind words. Reading everyone’s messages brings a smile to my face during this difficult time. I hope everyone has had a peaceful night and please just give your babies a little extra love tonight.

I was able to visit with him this evening. When he saw me, I like to think he recognized me. He looked in my direction and started sporting his pretty greens. Both eyes were alert and a little bit more plumped up. He did get dark from time to time and at one point he did this weird thing where it was almost as if something spooked him? He tensed up, put his defensive colors on and ran up my arm he then just hung out for a bit and his colors returned. I’m hoping something did spook him and it wasn’t his body going out of whack and causing him to jolt. as I was leaving, they were going to give him fluids and some meds. They’re keeping him in an incubator of sorts right now to allow him to rest? Not sure, but it was scary to see him in that. I’m feeling a little more optimistic, since their report seemed to be pretty positive. He also gained 3 grams, and had a bm this morning. His doc wasn’t able provide me a full summary of her meeting with the other doctors today which I understand I’m sure she’s super busy. I hope my sweet prince gets some rest tonight and has a better morning.

Thank you all again for the gigantic hug.

This is great to hear!! I know for a fact that your little guy recognized you when you walked in, but try to keep your head high during this process! You’re doing everything in your power to make sure your little guy is safe and sound so please please don’t be hard on yourself, i know it’s easier said than done. Sending big hugs

 

[elizaann2]

Sending you love and prayers. Sorry you and your chameleon are going through this.

 

[kinyonga]

You said…”one of his enzymes is highly elevated to the point where his body is eating the muscle”…I’d like to know what enzyme this is.

Please be aware that I’m not a vet, I just speak from experience and what I’ve learned over the years of keeping chameleons and many other reptiles.

If you’ve been overdosing both prEformed vitamin A and D3, while both may be at toxic levels, the effects would not be as evident due to their interaction…but from what I remember, it will show up eventually as organ damage or some other health issue. Hopefully if this is what it is you caught it in time.
You might like to read this…
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...rnals.com/vet/index.php?show=5.Vitamin.A.html

 

[MissSkittles]

@yungzerk, @Lindasjackson, and @CalamityCrow thank you for all of your support and kind words. Reading everyone’s messages brings a smile to my face during this difficult time. I hope everyone has had a peaceful night and please just give your babies a little extra love tonight.

I was able to visit with him this evening. When he saw me, I like to think he recognized me. He looked in my direction and started sporting his pretty greens. Both eyes were alert and a little bit more plumped up. He did get dark from time to time and at one point he did this weird thing where it was almost as if something spooked him? He tensed up, put his defensive colors on and ran up my arm he then just hung out for a bit and his colors returned. I’m hoping something did spook him and it wasn’t his body going out of whack and causing him to jolt. as I was leaving, they were going to give him fluids and some meds. They’re keeping him in an incubator of sorts right now to allow him to rest? Not sure, but it was scary to see him in that. I’m feeling a little more optimistic, since their report seemed to be pretty positive. He also gained 3 grams, and had a bm this morning. His doc wasn’t able provide me a full summary of her meeting with the other doctors today which I understand I’m sure she’s super busy. I hope my sweet prince gets some rest tonight and has a better morning.

Thank you all again for the gigantic hug.

I’m so glad you had a good visit with your sweet guy. He did recognize you and maybe he feels some relief or a chameleon’s version of comfort to see someone he knows and trusts. Really hoping that he fully recovers…and you do too.

 

[GiraffeSpots]

My sweet boy passed this afternoon. I’ve been a mess all day I think I’m going to take some time but please remember sweet Aiko he had such love for this big world. We are getting an autopsy performed and I will post updates. Love your little ones for me.