Help gravid female

Discussion in 'Chameleon Breeding' started by Ambichameleous, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Lennoncham

    Lennoncham Avid Member

    By buying that chameleon you just told petco that they can sell them and that it is ok to put them together because no matter what condition they are in or how stressed they are someone will buy it.

    Don’t get me wrong I have a veiled from petsmart but I wish I had people tell me not to before I got her like people said to you on here.

    Good luck with her.
  2. Well like they say all it takes is good people to stand by idly .... for me this was the course of action , will it reinforce their selling , possibly but did I do what I could for the one in front of me yes, and would hope anyone would do the same but that’s me
  3. But hey you also weren’t there for the storm
    I raised to the management , i voiced my
    Opinion and did what I felt was right for this animal but you’re entitled to your thought process
  4. Brodybreaux25

    Brodybreaux25 Chameleon Enthusiast

    As are you, but the bottom line is that despite how you feel about it, the signal was sent that this is a profitable strategy for them. We all feel just as bad when we see these animals treated like this but unfortunately the only way we can ever possibly hope to put a stop to this business model is to never purchase them. They only language companies like PetCo understand is money.

    Yes, It’s very tragic for the Chams already in this situation but the only way we can rescue untold thousands of Chams from this fate in the future is by NOT rescuing the ones that are there now.

    It sucks. We know. But it’s our only shot. Good luck!
  5. Well regardless they would’ve sold her Black Friday as they did the other to whomever was willing to pay the money, and there’s a lot of platforms to raise a voice about awareness , but honestly if it’s not positivity I don’t see why the need,but on here a lot of people seem very opinionated but if you want to help raise awareness maybe use the voice somewhere else instead of trying to be negative about the difference that I’m trying to make
  6. I don’t see what the point is to say oh what you’re doing is wrong ? And the only way to help is to do nothing ? I came to this site to make sure that she gets the best care instead have had people more willing to bite my head off and it’s honestly discouraging
  7. This animals situation was @Petco the manager wasn’t even going to make a lay bin , she knew it would be sold Black Friday and would be “someone else’s problem” so I intervened being as I’m stable enough to provide care and work in a field of animal care hoping I would provide the best chance, and have done plenty of research on my own and have been on here educating further almost every day , but I shouldn’t have to validate myself to an internet community
  8. Lennoncham

    Lennoncham Avid Member

    We all understand where you are coming from. No one wants to see one of these animals suffer. That is the same reason I got my female veiled.

    It doesn’t really matter how much of a fuss you raised to the manager because as you said it will be someone else’s problem. Yours now. And as soon as you handed money over for the very thing you were complaining about they won.
    dshuld likes this.
  9. Brodybreaux25

    Brodybreaux25 Chameleon Enthusiast

    No one is attacking you. No one is being negative. Only trying to educate you on a battle this community has been fighting for years. This community sees this kind of thing I don’t know how many times a month so we are very familiar with the cause of it.

    You have done a great thing for this specific Cham but not so much for the whole. As time goes on I have no doubt your eyes will be opened.
    Lennoncham and dshuld like this.
  10. Look to be honest I get it I came in your bubble, but honestly only someone who’s unaccomplished can feel that defeated in my opinion, I will always strive to help what’s in front of me, and had already told the manager no when she asked before about any interest in the chameleon, then rushed to get her, also the egg opinion I just want to reiterate , this altering an animals chemistry could cause health problems simple because the body reacts or a consistently lower temperature may lower immunity, that’s just two factors that without proper control and statistics may just be adding to inadequate care and shouldn’t be touted as a religious text when at the moment is unfortunately another opinion (even if it’s correct) I just don’t get why you feel on (what im assuming is your guys’ only social outlet) to be like that , rules in government ment, social norms are constantly being pushed , your argument to me is weak and just shows a cop out on life, but if your goal is to really educate and help raise a voice, have the audacity to, but to say you did your part by telling me mines wrong is just your self-righteous internet badge for the day , and I’m sorry but we all have the same search engine and have pretty much the same knowledge. Obviously I have my own experience through their husbandry and have come away learning a couple things, but apparently my chameleon has outlived a lot of yours, maybe unfortunately due to my care he won’t live as long as he could have. For what it’s worth you’ve accomplished nothing more then an argument on a place where I was trying to ensure an animals care ,well done enjoy your bubble guys...
    #70 Ambichameleous, Dec 6, 2018 at 10:17 AM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:01 AM
  11. Lennoncham

    Lennoncham Avid Member

    Well clearly you didn’t actually want anyone’s advice on here cause you already know it all.

    Good luck in your future endeavours.
  12. celeste_knitter

    celeste_knitter Avid Member

    A couple of things I have found in some research on follicular stasis aka "egg binding"

    "Many female reptiles in captivity cycle year-round (rather than seasonally), and produce larger clutches, with larger sized eggs compared to wildlife counterparts as a result of being kept in unvarying conditions (Cuadrado, 2000; DeNardo et al., 2002; Rivera, 2008). Many factors regulate follicle recruitment and clutch size in reptiles, including female body size, circulating levels of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), and the degree of ovarian vascularity, (Mendez-de la Cruz et al., 1993). However, environmental conditions can have a drastic impact on the number of follicles that continue to develop or undergo atresia (DeMarco, 1989; Mendez de la Cruz et al., 1993; Summers et al., 1998). Anolis carolinensis held under chronic low humidity (<30%) conditions had severely depressed ovarian and oviductal growth in comparison to those held under normal conditions (>60% humidity) (Summers et al., 1998)."

    "Further, body condition and resources available at the time of 4 vitellogenesis may impact egg size (DeMarco, 1989; Rhen et al., 2006; Shanbag et al., 2000). Rhen et al. (2006) state that the energy required for egg production can come from stored resources (capital), those acquired during reproduction (income), or a combination of both; and is proportional to the energy available. Females in captivity acquire a constant source of income energy, and are thus able to put more resources into egg production (Koch, 2005)."

    "Summers (1988) and Summers and Norman (1988) examined the effects of chronic low humidity on adrenal gland activity and ovarian recrudescence in A. carolinensis. Animals kept in low-humidity conditions exhibited peaks of corticosterone throughout the day (compared to control and high-humidity groups which only had one peak), were more often brown in colour rather than green (an indicator of stress in this species), and exhibited retarded ovarian growth, among other body condition traits. In addition, altering environmental conditions towards those which stimulate ovarian and oviductal growth; i.e. high temperature and longer photophase, can shift the diurnal rhythm of corticosterone release."

    "Physical characteristics of the reproductive tract may also be altered; for instance, increasing the viscosity of the vaginal mucus, decreasing the build-up of the lining of the uterus and reducing oviduct weight (Rivera et al., 1999)."

    Reference: CHARACTERIZATION OF FOLLICULAR STASIS IN A COLONY OF FEMALE VEILED CHAMELEONS (CHAMAELEO CALYPTRATUS) Robyn Harcourt Pimm University of Guelph, 2013 Advisors: Dr. Gabriela Mastromonaco Dr. W. Allan King

    My analysis from these sources quoted: get your husbandry correct; keep your female in optimal body condition (not fat...on the lean side) and you REDUCE the risk of egg binding
    #72 celeste_knitter, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:23 AM
    Kiraral and Ambichameleous like this.
  13. Brodybreaux25

    Brodybreaux25 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Are you Fing’ high? This post makes no sense!
    Rontti, Kiraral, Thehippie and 3 others like this.
  14. Thehippie

    Thehippie Established Member

    I think what theyre trying to say is that its just not good to buy from Petco since its encouraging misbred, mistreated and miscared for animals (I don't think those are real words) but either way, not trying to be rude I'm just trying to clear up the point in a friendly way. you saved that one chameleon individually and I totally understand your point but that one chameleon will be replaced by more and keep the industry going. I'm sorry if my post offends you but I just wanted to clear things up
    Brodybreaux25 and Lennoncham like this.
  15. no I get that entirely but keep in mind this is the same internet community buying up all cages on sale for the same @Petco that is the terrifying conglomerate, the egg thing if you’ve known this why isn’t their an article on panthers EXPLAINING that you kept it at this temperature, then dropped it to this at night, or keep the same 75 degrees and show me the success and help me understand ! Don’t just say this one article pertaining to a different species ! And if you have all this passion why NOT USE it in one of the MANY platforms to raise awareness about your opinion instead of trying to bring what I’m doing down ?
  16. I just don’t get where the passion is to help truly help and make a difference when their was clearly so much to say what I’m doing for what I felt I could in my power for the one in front of me
  17. And yes I’m sorry for the terrible punctuation and grammar , I use my phone, I don’t own a computer or social media and honestly this experience just reinforced why people on the internet are hard to deal with the few people with knowledge and help had to go through private because of all the hype over me just trying to do what I felt I could
  18. celeste_knitter

    celeste_knitter Avid Member

    There isn't much publishing market for chameleon articles. Of the few sources that will publish, you have to have qualifications beyond the average pet owner. People also have lives, enjoying their chameleons. You are demanding other people provide you things that you should be looking for. Go spend hours listening to Bill Strands podcast. He's a leading expert.
  19. Believe me right after I read erkleroses post days ago I realized how wrong I was , but you can’t just say I’m right, because someone came to a similar conclusion for something similar , help people understand
  20. I wasn’t demanding but if you go into math, then they ask ok I see your conclusion, show me your work, Well someone else was doing a similar problem so I copied theirs, if you’re so sure and so knowledgeable then why not take the 5 minutes it takes , it’s just a lot of high horses for not really taking the time to help

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