Gravid (Crested cham) has died Please Help!

dartfrog

New Member
Hi
Im so distraught as my Gorgeous Rhianna passed away late last night. Ive had her since she was a baby along with her brother Stumpee. They were CH from WC parents that sadly died, my 2 were the only babies that survived. When they were just over a year I decided to mate them they wernt quite fully grown but really healthy. They mated at the first attempt, Stumpee was so gentle with her 40 mins later they parted. Her pregnancy went really well she put on 30grams approx & laid her eggs with no problems after 87 days. She was eating & drinking again straight away I was so relieved my only worry was that she was still rather plump. I thought she may be going to produce another clutch so carried on feeding her well with her food always being dusted with pure calcium dont use too much in the way of other supplements as I know you can have problems with Montanes. She laid 13 eggs but sadly 3 were infertile so I was concerned that she had run out of viable sperm so her next clutch would be all infertile? Just after 5 weeks of her laying she was still looking great so decided to pair them up again as I was so worried that if she laid an infertile clutch she would have problems! Again they mated straight away. this was 26days ago & everthing seemed fine until Saturday when she looked uncomfortable wandering around upside down from the top of her viv she was also really thirsty with her eyes slightly sunken she didnt eat that day. I had to work yesterday & when I got home she looked much worse, kept closing her eyes not doing much I was going to try & take her to the vets today but sadly she passed in the night. I had a look to see if she was gravid ( felt physically sick doing it) she was & had approx 14 partly developed eggs everything else looked healthy I think! Please can anyone help me as to what could have gone wrong I feel terrible that I may have mated her too soon again! I was so proud of her just hope she can live on in her babies the eggs are 10 weeks now & still look good.So sorry for the long post many thanks Heatherxxx
 
I know mating brother & sister is not ideal but they are such a rare species I couldnt find anyone else keeping them here in the UK. I asked other cham breeders who said that it should be ok but not to keep doing it generation after generation!
Heather
 
Hi
Im so distraught as my Gorgeous Rhianna passed away late last night. Ive had her since she was a baby along with her brother Stumpee. They were CH from WC parents that sadly died, my 2 were the only babies that survived. When they were just over a year I decided to mate them they wernt quite fully grown but really healthy. They mated at the first attempt, Stumpee was so gentle with her 40 mins later they parted. Her pregnancy went really well she put on 30grams approx & laid her eggs with no problems after 87 days. She was eating & drinking again straight away I was so relieved my only worry was that she was still rather plump. I thought she may be going to produce another clutch so carried on feeding her well with her food always being dusted with pure calcium dont use too much in the way of other supplements as I know you can have problems with Montanes. She laid 13 eggs but sadly 3 were infertile so I was concerned that she had run out of viable sperm so her next clutch would be all infertile? Just after 5 weeks of her laying she was still looking great so decided to pair them up again as I was so worried that if she laid an infertile clutch she would have problems! Again they mated straight away. this was 26days ago & everthing seemed fine until Saturday when she looked uncomfortable wandering around upside down from the top of her viv she was also really thirsty with her eyes slightly sunken she didnt eat that day. I had to work yesterday & when I got home she looked much worse, kept closing her eyes not doing much I was going to try & take her to the vets today but sadly she passed in the night. I had a look to see if she was gravid ( felt physically sick doing it) she was & had approx 14 partly developed eggs everything else looked healthy I think! Please can anyone help me as to what could have gone wrong I feel terrible that I may have mated her too soon again! I was so proud of her just hope she can live on in her babies the eggs are 10 weeks now & still look good.So sorry for the long post many thanks Heatherxxx

I think you put too much stress on her, as in you probably rushed into mating again. Laying eggs and being "pregnant" is alot of stress on a female chameleon. This is just my advice but I would have waited.
 
Mr. Sensitivity

why was you mating a brother and sister anyway:confused:

wow. What a comment.

To the OP: so sorry you lost a beautiful animal you raised the whole way. Nothing I could say will help I'm sure, but please don't put too much of this on yourself. Not every mother survives the act of giving birth. Its just how nature is.

If I were to suggest any changes for future females it would just be a longer rest between pairings with the male.

Best wishes on the next generation.
 
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I'm so sorry for your loss of your female and know you'll feel joy again when the little ones hatch. :(
 
I'm so sorry for your loss. She was quite young to be having problems already.

Can you describe the eggs that were in her? Where they round or oval? What do you mean by "14 partly developed eggs"?

Was there a place for her to dig in the cage all the time?
 
Sorrry for your loss. We have all made hubandry mistakes along the way do not get to down on yourself. You sound like a dedicated owner/breeder. I try not to get more than two clutches per year out of any females. That way they have 2-3 months min between pairings and 5 months between laying. So they can fully recover. If they do lay a retained clutch i try to cut my feeding so that the second clutch is smaller than the first. Just start getting everything ready for those babies.
 
Thanks everyone for your support, Im feeling so down that I may of caused her to pass! The only reason I mated her after 5 weeks was because she seemed so healthy & was worried that she would lay an infertile clutch I asked a couple of breeders first & they thought it should be ok. Ive also read from a couple of people that have bred them that they always seem to lay 2 clutches most times the female has sadly died after the 2nd clutch but these have been older WC females so not as strong! She was 17 months when I mated her the 2nd time so hoped this was a good age? Please can you tell me how long I should have given her before mating again is it the same with all species?,I have what I thought was a good book which says only 2weeks for Panther chams which seems way too soon! Not sure if Id made it clear enough but she was a (Chamaeleo T Cristatus) Just wish I new of more Breeders of them they are such a beautiful species!
She had a nesting site I kept everything the same as it was the first time, the eggs were all preety much the same size yellowish & fairly round it was only 26days after her being mated so probably had 50to60 days to go.
I did take a couple of pics of them if you think it may help I will try & post tomorrow cant face it tonight!
Thanks again Heatherxxx
 
hey heather,


crested chams are such a difficult species to keep!
belive me.
i hope that your eggs will doing fine and that all hatch in a few months!
if you need any advice for breeding , i would help you!
are you going to hamm show this month ?

regards
patrick
 
Thanks so much Karen you are such a good friend:) Thanks as well Patrick if I need anymore help will be sure to let you know. Im so pleased your babies are doing well are you going to keep them or are you taking any to Hamm? I have friends that are going. How is your 2nd clutch doing?
Heatherxxx
 
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