Friendly vs. Jerk-face

[ChamieNewbie]

My son got a cham one day on a whim just went and got him. He was so little, so cute and we fell in love with everything about him. We did our research got an enclosure, set it all up then got our baby about 4 weeks after our son got his. They were both about the same age when we got them. He didn't do research so he would just take his little guy out of his cage and hold him and he absolutely loves coming out. I listened and gave him time to adjust and all. Yoda is deathly afraid of us. Today I decided to try just getting him, he got a little upset at first. No hissing, or gapping but darkened a little and tried to get away but I gently held him. He calmed pretty quickly and was out and about very active and allowing me near his cage without hiding after I put him back. This went on for a long time. I know some get used to being held and some even like it but I also wonder if you just need to show them you are not trying to eat them!

 

[ChamieNewbie]

Also he is generally doing very well happy, healthy and green. Hes eating VERY well he loves everything I give him and he's a great little hungry. He normally drinks from the leaves and everything is good. Today my air froze over and it was hotter than well you know in my house. I checked his temps and they were high so I turned off his heat and left his uvb on. I misted a lot to cool things off and up the humidity. He started attacking the tube for his dripper. I turned it up a little so he could get more water and heavily misted several more times. Has anyone ever experienced something like this?

 

[jannb]

I handle my chameleon from hatch. After all the paper towels have to be changed in the bottom of the baby bins daily. Chameleons don't like to be caged and some become territorial and very scared when something enters their space. If you have a safe area free from other pets and children you could try to free range him some when you are there to keep a close eye on him. Usually they are much nicer when interacted with and out of the cage. I'll find you a link by one of our senior members about taming your chameleon. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/psychobunny/746-taming-chameleon.html

Also I don't like to hear someone refer to their chameleon as jerk-face. Just because he's terribly afraid doesn't mean he's a jerk.

 

[ChamieNewbie]

As jerk-face I promise I'm only playing I'm sorry if it sounds offensive I'm just very inappropriate in real life. I think by the general demeanor of my post I tried to be clear I love him and only want the best for him and one of the main reasons I would like him to not fear me is because it would be a lot less stressful for him during regular cleaning and maintenance. I very much would like him to be friendly but if nothing else I just want him to be happy and if every time I have to clean his enclosure or anything else he has a complete melt down I can't imagine that would be great for him. I understand they tend to be loaners but I also see A LOT of people post here with great success on taming these beautiful little creatures.

 

[Kayroxyoursox]

My yoda is also a jerk-face and i hate even putting my hand in his cage. He is more tolerant now than he was a couple of months ago though. My panther chameleon is nice, and will eat out of my hand but has yet to let me hold him either. I am happy just looking at them . My husband thinks I'm crazy because I can literally just sit and watch them all day if I didn't have life getting in my way!

 

[ChamieNewbie]

Kay maybe its a Yoda thing lol. I think honestly I just gave him to much space. I think it made him fear me more. Instead of introducing myself to him early on so to speak. I held him again tonight for a few minutes and after I put him back he came out from all his plants hung out on his branches, moved around a bit, ate some in front of me, hung out some more. I think I might be growing on him lol. Tomorrow I need to clean his enclosure good, not just a clean up and he might be a little mad after that but it needs to be done. I clean up his cage every day to every other day then once a week or so I clean to really good. Hopefully he gets used to it. Hes healthy, active, eating well, and drinking well so I have nothing to worry about right now.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Kay maybe its a Yoda thing lol. I think honestly I just gave him to much space. I think it made him fear me more. Instead of introducing myself to him early on so to speak. I held him again tonight for a few minutes and after I put him back he came out from all his plants hung out on his branches, moved around a bit, ate some in front of me, hung out some more. I think I might be growing on him lol. Tomorrow I need to clean his enclosure good, not just a clean up and he might be a little mad after that but it needs to be done. I clean up his cage every day to every other day then once a week or so I clean to really good. Hopefully he gets used to it. Hes healthy, active, eating well, and drinking well so I have nothing to worry about right now.

Try thinking from your chameleon's point of view. You are a big chameleon-eating monster. That's how he views you, and probably will for the rest of his life. I am sure others have chameleons who truly are tame, but if you treat him as if he is afraid you will eat him at any time, you will slow down your movements and be more aware of the stresses you cause him, and ultimately make him more tame. Think of how you would feel if one of the monsters from Aliens reached into your living room while you were watching TV. That is his perception of you. He will not get "mad" at your cleaning his cage--he will become afraid, very afraid.

What you experienced when he seemed less fearful after you handled him is that he was temporarily desensitized to your presence after you flooded him--you forced him to submit to a very fearful experience with no opportunity to escape. That kind of desensitizing doesn't always work and has a habit of backfiring, with the fear returning at greater intensity. You can actually teach him to be more fearful, and cement that fear into his little psyche.

Young chameleons often appear more compliant to being handled than adults, but that complaisant behavior as babies doesn't mean they will be that way as adults. They might be just as afraid as the big hissing, gaping veiled male that the baby might very well grow up to be. They just may not have learned that survival strategy yet. Or that survival strategy--aggression--is not the best for a baby chameleon. While they might tolerate handling, they still might be terrified.

Yes, they really do get used to humans. I have a group of wild caughts and all have settled down. Two were suicidal if handled, choosing to leap into space rather than risk being near me. One was almost impossible to find in her heavily furnished enclosure, diving for cover if I entered the room. I only knew she was alive because I hadn't found her body. She took a roach out of my hand the other day. Several will sit calmly on my hand, but I know they really are terrified, just not as much. I just don't think it is fair to my animals to torture them with handling.

A lot of times, what a person describes as happening in an interaction with a chameleon is not at all what the chameleon experiences. There is no way anyone can know the inner workings of a chameleon's mind. When I hear, "happy to be handled" or "he loves to sit on my shoulder and--this one really got me--snuggle," I suspect the person is not being observant and has not done any research into the natural history of chameleons.

Running over to a door to greet you does not mean the animal has any emotional relationship with you. He might want to escape the cage or expect food. They do learn and will interact with you even when afraid. An interesting taming method used with wild-caught adult parrots was to use the trainer's retreat as a reward for the parrot allowing the trainer to come closer. Sounds counter intuitive, but the parrot learned they could make the trainer go away if they tolerated the trainer close for a moment. The parrot allowing the trainer close proximity did not mean the parrot liked the trainer or feared the trainer less, it just gave the parrot control. A survival instinct for chameleons is to be still, so sitting quietly on your hand does not mean they are happy. It might mean they are in mortal terror waiting to be eaten.

Don't underestimate the damage done physiologically to an animal exposed to repeated near-death experiences. The cascade of stress hormones does many things, one being suppressing the immune system, which is why stressed animals get sick and die more often. It takes hours for the blood chemistry to return to normal after a stressful situation.

I hope what I've written is helpful and gives you some ideas on how to integrate this wonderful animal into your life.

 

[ChamieNewbie]

jajean You have so much knowledge and from all I have seen here are very helpful..but I think you are misunderstanding things I am saying. I do not really think he is a jerk face. In fact I think he is a very sweet, adorable, beautiful boy. I absolutly love him and I want him to have a wonderful, long and happy life with me. Like I said "jerk face" is kind of a term of endearment for me (you should hear what I call my kids lol j/k). BTW my kids are adults and we play a lot please no one call CPS on me. As for my Yoda my only goal is to have him stress/fear less when I am near him because I do need to clean his cage regularly and just generally take care of him. How sad it would me if he is deathly afraid everytime I come near him for the rest of his life. If anyone in real life knew me they would never once doubt my love and deadication to any of my pets or kids for that matter because they all live the good life here. Most are rescues and have taken A LOT of time and patience because they have had pretty severe issues. I was mostly playing around but was stating the difference between my son knowing nothing and his being so relaxed already and me reading EVERYTHING and his being so scared. I know they are two totally different personalities and will be different and I was just stating that difference.

 

[jajeanpierre]

jajean You have so much knowledge and from all I have seen here are very helpful..but I think you are misunderstanding things I am saying. I do not really think he is a jerk face. In fact I think he is a very sweet, adorable, beautiful boy. I absolutly love him and I want him to have a wonderful, long and happy life with me. Like I said "jerk face" is kind of a term of endearment for me (you should hear what I call my kids lol j/k). BTW my kids are adults and we play a lot please no one call CPS on me. As for my Yoda my only goal is to have him stress/fear less when I am near him because I do need to clean his cage regularly and just generally take care of him. How sad it would me if he is deathly afraid everytime I come near him for the rest of his life. If anyone in real life knew me they would never once doubt my love and deadication to any of my pets or kids for that matter because they all live the good life here. Most are rescues and have taken A LOT of time and patience because they have had pretty severe issues. I was mostly playing around but was stating the difference between my son knowing nothing and his being so relaxed already and me reading EVERYTHING and his being so scared. I know they are two totally different personalities and will be different and I was just stating that difference.

I don't think you really took in what I wrote. Jokingly calling him a jerk face has nothing to do with what I wrote. You expressed disappointment in the behavior of your chameleon, which seemed like pretty normal and expected chameleon behavior to me.

He might always remain afraid of you. He might not. I think his default response to you will always be of your being a predator. I don't find that particularly sad--some of that is simply the nature of a chameleon.

 

[Crashbandit05]

This is just my .02$ but from working in animal welfare I've come to realize that the number one thing people do wrong is having the misconception that (domesticated) animals have human emotions. Dogs and cats and probably every other aniaml live in the moment and don't typically experience the wide variety of emotions humans have. They will eventually become conditioned to consistent interactions whether positive or negative. Just look at the Pavlov experiment for example.
Jajeanpierre makes a great point, very good insight. When I'm dealing with a new dog or feral cat, I try to make myself as less threatening as possible. IE, crouch down very low, avoid prolonged eye contact, no touch, smell, or talk. Moving very slow at all times. Understanding animal body language is crucial to owning any animal because even though they do not speak as we humans, every movement whether subtle or not is telling you how/what they feel.

 

[jajeanpierre]

This is just my .02$ but from working in animal welfare I've come to realize that the number one thing people do wrong is having the misconception that (domesticated) animals have human emotions. Dogs and cats and probably every other aniaml live in the moment and don't typically experience the wide variety of emotions humans have. They will eventually become conditioned to consistent interactions whether positive or negative. Just look at the Pavlov experiment for example.
Jajeanpierre makes a great point, very good insight. When I'm dealing with a new dog or feral cat, I try to make myself as less threatening as possible. IE, crouch down very low, avoid prolonged eye contact, no touch, smell, or talk. Moving very slow at all times. Understanding animal body language is crucial to owning any animal because even though they do not speak as we humans, every movement whether subtle or not is telling you how/what they feel.

That's definitely one of the points I wanted to make--you did it so much better!

Mammals are so much easier for us to observe their subtle body language than a reptile is. They have facial muscles and hair that does a variety of things (standing on end or slicked down) that a reptile doesn't have. Even certain breeds of animals are "easier" to read simply because they have thinner skin so their faces are more expressive. We humans miss so much, even when we are really trying to be observant. Humans also generalize concepts and recognize patterns very well, so we tend to jump to conclusions quite quickly based on our past experiences.

Here's an example of a human and her dog completely missing what was really happening. In this YouTube clip, a wild coyote plays with a pit bull puppy. The owner and the dog think it is playing. It is not. It is a very successful hunting strategy coyotes have developed to kill domestic dogs. They play with the dog and lure him off where the pack will kill him. They do it with very big dogs, and the dog--a canine that is so closely related to the coyote they can produce hybrid pups--doesn't even understand the coyote.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIo1d9BeXjA

 

[Candybugs]

Chaminewbie I just want to tell you I get it. My Seymore is a punk sometimes too. He'll hiss at me some days and all I can do is photo shop a cup of coffee on his head or a plane flying into his butt. It's all love tho. Seymore has boundaries and I respect them to the fullest except on housecleaning days and then I think he appreciates the cleaning more than he hates me for doing it. FYI were neighbors too. Hi

 

[ChamieNewbie]

Thank you Candy I feel like I am being misunderstood. Where in Cali are you from?

 

[Candybugs]

Rosemead it's by east L.A.

 

[ChamieNewbie]

Oh yeah I know where Rosemead is. Im in the I.E.

 

[Candybugs]

I had the coolest thing happen today. My daughter works in south central and there's a dog that's in a horrible home but the owner said we could take her if it's to a home. I posted her about a month ago on rescue me. Org. A lady called today and is taking in the dog on monday. It's a retired couple in Sierra Madre which is a beautiful area. My daughter was coming home sad everyday over this litter dog. We were gonna take her tonight but the dogs owners weren't there to give her to us. So monday. Best feeling ever. I got one dog out of South Central.

 

[Candybugs]

I think I lived in Upland before

 

[Candybugs]

We have a dog we rescued from the streets in Pomona. Yuk

 

[ChamieNewbie]

Oh Candy thats amazing. Poor baby at least its only a few more days to a life changing home. I lived ine Monrovia and Sierra Madre when I was little it is beautiful. I rescued a dog in Hathorne she is my sweet pea. I live about 5 minutes from Upland in Rancho Cucamonga. I agree Pomona is Yuck. Im so happy to hear there is going to be a happy ending that sweet girl is going to have a happy life. I seriously do not understand why people take on an animal if they are not going to provide it a good life for its entire life. I guess thats why I feel a little offened by the direction this post took I would never ever be mean to any animal. I cant even watch animal hurt each other on tv or watch animal get hurt on TV shows knowing that is isnt real. It effects me so much.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I guess thats why I feel a little offened by the direction this post took I would never ever be mean to any animal. I cant even watch animal hurt each other on tv or watch animal get hurt on TV shows knowing that is isnt real. It effects me so much.

No need to be offended. Everyone was just trying to help you get a better understanding of the nature of your chameleon. Your original post was full of disappointment in the pet you had just bought.