First time with egg laying female. Need any advice possible :)

[Ellie Anna]

Hello! This is the first chameleon I’ve ever owned. About a month into having her (Urbosa) she stopped eating and started to move less, so I rushed her into the vet and they showed me her ultra sound. She looks like she might have quite a large clutch. I took her in on July 18th a few days after refusing food so I know she’s had eggs for at least a week now and I just had some questions to avoid her becoming egg bound. (She’s currently on a calcium supplement the vet gave me as well as an antibiotic)

1. Will a female still display receptive colors after the eggs are already developed? (I know she has eggs and I can clearly see them, but sometimes her coloring looks receptive)

2. How long should I expect her to be holding onto these eggs before worrying about her becoming egg bound? (She has a follow up at the vet august 11th to be sure)

3. she keeps contorting her body as if she’s trying to relieve stomach pain and will display stress colors, and she will randomly stand on her hind legs and slowly fall over onto her side. Is she in pain? (She REALLY dislikes handling but now she’ll climb into my hand and rest her stomach on my palm like she needs a little heating pad or something :’) )

Thank you to anyone who can give me any advice or knowledge! Literally anything you guys can share with me weather I asked about it or not will help me feel more confident during this process ))
(pics of Enclosure, laying bin, and Urbosa resting and doing the contortionist thing below)

 

[Gloriawood]

Hello! This is the first chameleon I’ve ever owned. About a month into having her (Urbosa) she stopped eating and started to move less, so I rushed her into the vet and they showed me her ultra sound. She looks like she might have quite a large clutch. I took her in on July 18th a few days after refusing food so I know she’s had eggs for at least a week now and I just had some questions to avoid her becoming egg bound. (She’s currently on a calcium supplement the vet gave me as well as an antibiotic)

1. Will a female still display receptive colors after the eggs are already developed? (I know she has eggs and I can clearly see them, but sometimes her coloring looks receptive)

2. How long should I expect her to be holding onto these eggs before worrying about her becoming egg bound? (She has a follow up at the vet august 11th to be sure)

3. she keeps contorting her body as if she’s trying to relieve stomach pain and will display stress colors, and she will randomly stand on her hind legs and slowly fall over onto her side. Is she in pain? (She REALLY dislikes handling but now she’ll climb into my hand and rest her stomach on my palm like she needs a little heating pad or something :’) )

Thank you to anyone who can give me any advice or knowledge! Literally anything you guys can share with me weather I asked about it or not will help me feel more confident during this process ))
(pics of Enclosure, laying bin, and Urbosa resting and doing the contortionist thing below)

Welcome! You have such a cute girl!! I love her colors. How old is she?

I won’t be much help with your questions unfortunately (I have a male). But there are tons of people here who can help you out. Everyone is super nice However, I did want to ask what lights you are using? It looks like you have a coil UVB. My guy had this light when I first adopted him and it turns out that they are not so great for them. I’m order to get the correct UVB they need a linear light.

Something that helped me greatly when I first brought Spaghetti home (not that long ago ) was having a husbandry review done. You fill out a form and one of the lovely experts here will review it for you. If you would like to do this, I can get you the form.

So glad to have you here!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Did the ultrasound show formed eggs? Has she been digging at all in her bin? Is she basking? Is she eating nothing at all?
Along with some other concerns, one is with having produced a very large clutch which in itself can cause problems with laying. Looking at your enclosure gives me many other concerns that her husbandry hasn’t been up to par which will definitely cause problems. I really do feel a full husbandry review is very needed so that we can identify problems and help you to correct them. However, the priority is your girl getting those eggs out. There are signs that she is in distress - not basking, staying low in her enclosure, being lethargic, not eating or drinking, eyes closed at any time when lights are on and some will start to dig and stop. When any of these signs are seen, you want to get her to a good vet. I can’t tell you if she’s in distress now, but I will tell you to go with your gut feelings. I’m also going to urge you to be very honest with your vet for the sake of your pretty girl. Please don’t think I’m being mean. I have to be honest or it won’t be of any benefit to you. Your vet (and you) needs to know that you do not have correct uvb. With the light that you have, even if one is a uvb bulb, it’s impossible that she’s gotten any uvb at all. You also need to take whatever supplements you have been using to your vet and tell him/her how often you use them. If you aren’t giving any vitamin D3 and have essentially no uvb source, your girl has not been able to absorb or use any of the calcium you may have been giving. This means trouble when it comes to eggs and laying them all successfully.
I have to ask about your lay bin. How big is it? How deep is the sand? Is the sand moistened enough so that it can form a tunnel without collapsing? If you see her in the bin and starting to dig, you need to quietly cover just the visible parts of the enclosure and give her absolute privacy. If she sees anyone, she won’t feel safe and will stop digging. Laying eggs from start to finish can take up to a couple of days. I make little holes in the sheet I cover my girls with so I can monitor them and make sure they’re doing ok. Please, don’t handle her at all until she is able to get her eggs laid/out. No heating pad, no warm baths or showers…just mist like normal, offer food and let her be. You may need to see the vet before the 11th. @kinyonga may have additional questions or advice for you. I’ll post the husbandry review questions separately and just copy/paste with your answers.

 

[MissSkittles]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

So…please handle her as little as possible right now and let her be in peace so she can “concentrate” on laying her eggs…stay out of her face…don’t let her see you watching her.

Make sure the laybin is set up well…playsand is moist enough to hold a tunnel but not any more moist than that….make it so she has easy access to it…definitely don’t let her see you if she does start digging.

If she sits low in the cage, is lethargic, looks like she’s going down hill, sleeping during the day, get her to a good exotics vet right away.

She shouldn’t hold onto the eggs for more than 30 to 40 or so days….but do you know when she first showed receptive colouration?

I don’t like that she’s contorting her body…it makes me feel that she’s having some kind of issue with the eggs….but I’m not a vet and can only speak from experience.

So…it was an ultrasound not an X-ray she had?

 

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles has given you some great information and advice!

 

[Ellie Anna]

Welcome! You have such a cute girl!! I love her colors. How old is she?

I won’t be much help with your questions unfortunately (I have a male). But there are tons of people here who can help you out. Everyone is super nice However, I did want to ask what lights you are using? It looks like you have a coil UVB. My guy had this light when I first adopted him and it turns out that they are not so great for them. I’m order to get the correct UVB they need a linear light.

Something that helped me greatly when I first brought Spaghetti home (not that long ago ) was having a husbandry review done. You fill out a form and one of the lovely experts here will review it for you. If you would like to do this, I can get you the form.

So glad to have you here!

Thank you so much! I believe she has a t5 UVB light and I know it’s 60watts. And I don’t know her exact age, but im assuming 7 months to a year. I got her for free at the pet store I work at because she kept getting brought back for biting people lol. But I know she’s been here since at least January!

 

[Ellie Anna]

Hi and welcome. Did the ultrasound show formed eggs? Has she been digging at all in her bin? Is she basking? Is she eating nothing at all?
Along with some other concerns, one is with having produced a very large clutch which in itself can cause problems with laying. Looking at your enclosure gives me many other concerns that her husbandry hasn’t been up to par which will definitely cause problems. I really do feel a full husbandry review is very needed so that we can identify problems and help you to correct them. However, the priority is your girl getting those eggs out. There are signs that she is in distress - not basking, staying low in her enclosure, being lethargic, not eating or drinking, eyes closed at any time when lights are on and some will start to dig and stop. When any of these signs are seen, you want to get her to a good vet. I can’t tell you if she’s in distress now, but I will tell you to go with your gut feelings. I’m also going to urge you to be very honest with your vet for the sake of your pretty girl. Please don’t think I’m being mean. I have to be honest or it won’t be of any benefit to you. Your vet (and you) needs to know that you do not have correct uvb. With the light that you have, even if one is a uvb bulb, it’s impossible that she’s gotten any uvb at all. You also need to take whatever supplements you have been using to your vet and tell him/her how often you use them. If you aren’t giving any vitamin D3 and have essentially no uvb source, your girl has not been able to absorb or use any of the calcium you may have been giving. This means trouble when it comes to eggs and laying them all successfully.
I have to ask about your lay bin. How big is it? How deep is the sand? Is the sand moistened enough so that it can form a tunnel without collapsing? If you see her in the bin and starting to dig, you need to quietly cover just the visible parts of the enclosure and give her absolute privacy. If she sees anyone, she won’t feel safe and will stop digging. Laying eggs from start to finish can take up to a couple of days. I make little holes in the sheet I cover my girls with so I can monitor them and make sure they’re doing ok. Please, don’t handle her at all until she is able to get her eggs laid/out. No heating pad, no warm baths or showers…just mist like normal, offer food and let her be. You may need to see the vet before the 11th. @kinyonga may have additional questions or advice for you. I’ll post the husbandry review questions separately and just copy/paste with your answers.

Thank you so much for your advice! I’ll post her full enclosure when I’m back at home. I’ve been avoiding handling and covering her cage because I read about them getting spooked easily. (When she was resting her belly on my palm I was handling her to bring her into the vet) she is far from seeming sick despite her kinda contorting her body, but even that’s slowed down A lot in the past 2 days. She’s eating but she’s being very picky about it (will try to eat small crickets but if she misses she immediately gives up) her eyes don’t appear to be sunken and she basks often. She stands at the very top of her tank eyeballing her sand. It’s wet enough to form a tunnel, the front is shallower than I’d like it to be but the back has about 6-7cm of sand and she can climb in easily. In her ultrasound she looked like she was full or orbeez so the eggs are formed for sure. In the past weeks I’ve noticed them turn into ovals near her hind legs and she’s gained a lot of weight rapidly. I’m still a little unsure of what exactly would be the perfect UVB light for her and I’ve been kinda concerned about it, so if you have a good recommendation please lmk! I greatly appreciate all your advice!

 

[Gloriawood]

So you need the long skinny bulb for the UVB, not the coil kind. I use the 24 watt Reptisun 5.0 T5 High output. These bulbs are the cheaper ones. A lot of people use the Arcadia bulbs and they are a higher quality. The Reptisun needs to be changed every 6 months whether it’s burnt out or not. I believe the Arcadia lasts a bit longer.

I’ll let the others handle the advice from here as they are much more experienced than I am. Don’t worry, you are in good hands with them and they will help you get everything sorted out

 

[MissSkittles]

Thank you so much for your advice! I’ll post her full enclosure when I’m back at home. I’ve been avoiding handling and covering her cage because I read about them getting spooked easily. (When she was resting her belly on my palm I was handling her to bring her into the vet) she is far from seeming sick despite her kinda contorting her body, but even that’s slowed down A lot in the past 2 days. She’s eating but she’s being very picky about it (will try to eat small crickets but if she misses she immediately gives up) her eyes don’t appear to be sunken and she basks often. She stands at the very top of her tank eyeballing her sand. It’s wet enough to form a tunnel, the front is shallower than I’d like it to be but the back has about 6-7cm of sand and she can climb in easily. In her ultrasound she looked like she was full or orbeez so the eggs are formed for sure. In the past weeks I’ve noticed them turn into ovals near her hind legs and she’s gained a lot of weight rapidly. I’m still a little unsure of what exactly would be the perfect UVB light for her and I’ve been kinda concerned about it, so if you have a good recommendation please lmk! I greatly appreciate all your advice!

The biggest concern I see with your set up is uvb. The screw in bulbs are effective only 2-3” away and that just doesn’t work for chameleons. The standard is as @Gloriawood has said - a linear T5HO fixture with either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%. I’m more fond of Arcadia as I know they last for about a year, while ReptiSun may only last for 6 months. Once you have the correct light, it then needs to be placed 8-9” above basking branch. Think of uvb as artificial sunlight. It’s essential for the body to create vitamin D3 which is needed for calcium absorption. Sunlight and uvb does not pass thru glass, plastic and other items as an fyi. You can give all the calcium in the world, but without D3, it passes thru the body unused. This leads to metabolic bone disease which involves more than just bones, but muscles and nerve conduction and all the stuff that works together to keep a body alive and well. When our girls are producing their eggs, the eggs need calcium so they steal it from the bones mostly. This hastens the mbd process and places the animal at high risk for bone fractures. Since calcium is so important and we need to make certain our animals are getting what their body needs from our artificial suns (uvb), we very carefully add in some supplemental D3. The supplement is fat soluble and can build up in the body to toxic levels, which is just as bad as mbd and many symptoms are similar. So, for supplements we give phosphorus free calcium without D3 lightly dusted at every feeding. Then we need to give a source of vitamin D3 one feeding every other week (for veileds). We also need to give a multivitamin one feeding every other week for other important vitamins and minerals. The easisest way to give D3 and multivitamins is to use a good combination product like Repashy Calcium Plus LoD or ReptiVite with D3 for one feeding every other week. These two are preferred by some of us since they contain a source of vitamin A that we know chameleons can use. We have to be careful with this vitamin though, same as the D3.
Since I talk a lot (I like explaining the ‘why’ so people understand how important something is rather than just say, “do this”) I’m going to give you at least another reply post with other info.

 

[MissSkittles]

Now let’s go over your enclosure. First, it’s too small. Adults need at least 2x2x4’ enclosures. Once you get that big beautiful space for your pretty girl, you want to fill it with branches, vines and lots of safe live plants. Pothos is always a staple. Veileds like to eat their plants and don’t really know the difference of fake vs real. It only takes one nibble of a fake leaf to cause a potentially life threatening bowel obstruction. No substrate! Bare floor is best and easiest to keep clean and hygienic. You’ll need to come up with a solution to manage drainage. Everyone has their own way, so you’ll have to figure out what works best for you. The lay bin needs to be of adequate size. My girls have preferred larger bins of at least 12x12” long and wide. I fill to about 5-6” deep with moistened play sand after drilling some tiny holes in the bottom of the bin to prevent drainage from making a mud swamp. It’s best to keep the bin in the enclosure permanently. Posting a pic of one of the enclosures I had set up for my panther to give you and idea. You can also see how I have my lights - basking in one side of the dual dome, uvb is diagonal and then in the back is my big square plant light. For raising the plants I set them on top of empty plant pots turned upside down. I also used Dragon Ledges to attach everything. https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Usually I cover the back and at least half of the sides with a shower curtain to avoid water spraying my walls. Depending on how humid it is where you are, you may not want to do this.
Perfect segue into temps and humidity. Ideal basking temp for a female is 80F. Ideal daytime humidity is between 30-50% for a veiled. You want the enclosure to have a chance to dry out between mistings. You should be misting (NOT fogging) for 2 minutes, 2-3 times a day - right before lights go on and off and at mid day is optional. Some use a dripper for about 15 minutes mid day. You need to avoid high heat plus high humidity as that is a recipe for respiratory infection.

 

[MissSkittles]

Just one more and then I want you to go to https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-basics/
Feeding is important to get right and over feeding is not good. The number of eggs your girl will produce is linked to how much she eats. Since producing too many eggs increases risks for egg binding and even normal laying shortens the lives of our girls, we are careful to control temp and food to decrease egg production. I already gave you the temp. For feeding, I feed my girls 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. Offering a variety of staple feeders is important, as is making sure your feeder bugs are well fed and healthy so that they are more nutritious. Attaching some graphics. Ok, I’m fading fast. I worked last night and need some zzz. Hopefully one of our other members will chime in.

 

[Ellie Anna]

Just one more and then I want you to go to https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-basics/
Feeding is important to get right and over feeding is not good. The number of eggs your girl will produce is linked to how much she eats. Since producing too many eggs increases risks for egg binding and even normal laying shortens the lives of our girls, we are careful to control temp and food to decrease egg production. I already gave you the temp. For feeding, I feed my girls 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus treats. Offering a variety of staple feeders is important, as is making sure your feeder bugs are well fed and healthy so that they are more nutritious. Attaching some graphics. Ok, I’m fading fast. I worked last night and need some zzz. Hopefully one of our other members will chime in.
View attachment 341137View attachment 341138

Wow thank you so so much for all your advice! I picked up that UVB light while I was at work today and I’m planning on getting Urbosa a nice big tank when she’s done laying her eggs so I don’t have to stress her while she’s trying to lay definitely noted on the feeding as well, I was feeding her about 3-4 every other day. Also, when I came home from work I noticed urbosa at the top of her tank basking with what looked like a little gravid coloration! I thought they might’ve just been basking colors at first glance, but after looking a little more I noticed there was a half open flap looking thing at the base of her tail like she just finished laying or is about to. Then my little sister noticed the bottom left of the corner (the deepest part) looked like it had been kicked up and there’s even sand on the sides of her tank! I think she may have laid her eggs but how long should I wait before I check? (I don’t wanna check while she’s still laying and make her hold the rest in. Since I came home and there’s more activity in the house I’ve completely covered her enclosure to give her some privacy. Posting pictures of the potential nest if anyone can confirm for me!)

 

[elizaann2]

The process can take anywhere from 8 hours to a day or two. When she is done you should know, she will look SUPER skinny.

If you aren’t sure if she is done or not, leave her alone. No harm in letting those eggs sit for a day or two to ensure she is done.

 

[elizaann2]

Wow thank you so so much for all your advice! I picked up that UVB light while I was at work today and I’m planning on getting Urbosa a nice big tank when she’s done laying her eggs so I don’t have to stress her while she’s trying to lay definitely noted on the feeding as well, I was feeding her about 3-4 every other day. Also, when I came home from work I noticed urbosa at the top of her tank basking with what looked like a little gravid coloration! I thought they might’ve just been basking colors at first glance, but after looking a little more I noticed there was a half open flap looking thing at the base of her tail like she just finished laying or is about to. Then my little sister noticed the bottom left of the corner (the deepest part) looked like it had been kicked up and there’s even sand on the sides of her tank! I think she may have laid her eggs but how long should I wait before I check? (I don’t wanna check while she’s still laying and make her hold the rest in. Since I came home and there’s more activity in the house I’ve completely covered her enclosure to give her some privacy. Posting pictures of the potential nest if anyone can confirm for me!)

Is this the uvb light you just purchased for her?

 

[Ellie Anna]

The process can take anywhere from 8 hours to a day or two. When she is done you should know, she will look SUPER skinny.

If you aren’t sure if she is done or not, leave her alone. No harm in letting those eggs sit for a day or two to ensure she is done.

Awesome! I’ve been working for 8 hours but I’m assuming she started laying in the middle of my shift so I’m gonna leave her be for the night. She looked skinnier, but not super skinny so I think she’s still got some more left. Thanks for the advice!

 

[elizaann2]

Awesome! I’ve been working for 8 hours but I’m assuming she started laying in the middle of my shift so I’m gonna leave her be for the night. She looked skinnier, but not super skinny so I think she’s still got some more left. Thanks for the advice!

Yep just leave her and good luck!

 

[Ellie Anna]

Is this the uvb light you just purchased for her?

Yes it was recommended, I believe it’s the same one I currently have but I got it to be safe

 

[MissSkittles]

So I hate to tell you this, but that still isn’t the correct uvb. You need the 24” long T5HO fixture and then the 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb to match. This is the correct one and if you have any questions, you can contact that vendor and he will help you. https://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-pro-t5-fixture-6-bulb-22-5-sale-now-only-69-99/ An alternate way to get everything that you need with no guessing and risking buying the wrong stuff - plus the price is fantastic. https://www.pangeareptile.com/colle...tarter-chameleon-kit-by-neptune-the-chameleon
How wet is your lay bin? It looks a bit muddy, but is hard to tell in pics. You want it to be just moist enough to hold a tunnel. If you squeeze some in your hand, it will hold its shape for a time and without dripping. When they are laying, they will dig all the way down to the bottom. Mine always preferred laying their eggs in a corner. Sometimes they will dig a few tunnels until they are happy with one. They are picky where they deposit their precious eggs and she doesn’t know her eggs are infertile. It takes time to dig that deep with those little mitten feet and if night comes, she might sleep in her tunnel. Once she’s satisfied with her tunnel, she’ll turn around so her head is facing out and lay her eggs. Once they are all out, she’ll very carefully and thoroughly cover all signs that there was ever any digging there. My girls always started in the morning and finished up the following day.
I don’t like that her vent is partially open. That shouldn’t be like that. If she starts randomly dropping eggs, I want you to get her to a good vet without any delay. If she is having problems, usually a bit of time has passed until we realize it. If we wait any longer, she becomes weaker and has a poorer chance of laying the eggs or even surviving surgery to remove them.

 

[Ellie Anna]

Hello again! Thank you for all the advice, I checked Urbosa this morning and her vent is now shut and she is very very skinny and active! Hopefully she’s laid her eggs but I’m still trying to get her that new UVB light. Which one would be the best?