Egg laying question

[elizaann2]

Ok so I will never tell someone not to go get an xray done to see what is going on. I feel like peace of mind is really important especially with females.

Everything your doing with husbandry is good. And her clutch sizes are fantastic. Most commonly they will go off food right before they get ready to lay. Maybe dig a test tunnel or two and leave them for her. Double check all her pathways and that the lay bin is hidden well.

I feel the same way. I just tend to 'panic' with her when it turns out most of the time it wasn't necessary. I am totally prepared to take her to an emergency vet if its suggested or I can also call my vet on Monday to see when they can squeeze her in to get an xray done. Do you know if with an x-ray they can tell if she needs to get the eggs out asap or if she will still be able to lay them on her own?

If I remember correctly, my girl never did go off food just before she laid her last two clutches. I'll try the test tunnels and leave them for her as well as add more pathways to help her find it. I have her sheet ready to cover the enclosure in case I do see her digging and am still watching her on my 'cham cam' for any signs of digging, pacing and/or distress.

This is a picture of the current enclosure, any other feedback on what I can improve would be appreciated

 

[Beman]

I feel the same way. I just tend to 'panic' with her when it turns out most of the time it wasn't necessary. I am totally prepared to take her to an emergency vet if its suggested or I can also call my vet on Monday to see when they can squeeze her in to get an xray done. Do you know if with an x-ray they can tell if she needs to get the eggs out asap or if she will still be able to lay them on her own?

If I remember correctly, my girl never did go off food just before she laid her last two clutches. I'll try the test tunnels and leave them for her as well as add more pathways to help her find it. I have her sheet ready to cover the enclosure in case I do see her digging and am still watching her on my 'cham cam' for any signs of digging, pacing and/or distress.

This is a picture of the current enclosure, any other feedback on what I can improve would be appreciated

It looks really good... My only feedback is the plant pot that is in the lay bin may pose an issue. Should she start digging up against that pot and then the pot creates a collapse on her. I would either dig out a spot for that pot to be all the way down in her substrait or remove it.

 

[elizaann2]

It looks really good... My only feedback is the plant pot that is in the lay bin may pose an issue. Should she start digging up against that pot and then the pot creates a collapse on her. I would either dig out a spot for that pot to be all the way down in her substrait or remove it.

The bottom of the pot touches the bottom of the lay bin and then I just placed sand/substrate all around it. I am debating on just taking it out though, do you think it takes up too much room in the lay bin?

The test tunnels have been made for her and now I'm just adding a few more branches for her to get in there. She is hanging out around the lay bin as of this morning but has not actually gone in there. She either hangs out on the branch above the lay bin, on the plant in her lay bin or on the sides of the lay bin.

 

[Beman]

The bottom of the pot touches the bottom of the lay bin and then I just placed sand/substrate all around it. I am debating on just taking it out though, do you think it takes up too much room in the lay bin?

The test tunnels have been made for her and now I'm just adding a few more branches for her to get in there. She is hanging out around the lay bin as of this morning but has not actually gone in there. She either hangs out on the branch above the lay bin, on the plant in her lay bin or on the sides of the lay bin.

Oh no that should be fine. I just wanted to make sure it was not sitting on top of the substraight. I could not tell. good job. Sounds like she is checking it out.

 

[elizaann2]

Oh no that should be fine. I just wanted to make sure it was not sitting on top of the substraight. I could not tell. good job. Sounds like she is checking it out.

Ya I thought about that too when I first out the pot in there. I don’t want the plant to fall on her!

Update on the sticks in her lay bin with attached photos.

 

[Beman]

Ya I thought about that too when I first out the pot in there. I don’t want the plant to fall on her!

Update on the sticks in her lay bin with attached photos.

looks good to me.

 

[elizaann2]

looks good to me.

Ok I’ll continue to monitor her via camera and wait to hear from @Sonny13

 

[Sonny13]

Ok I’ll continue to monitor her via camera and wait to hear from @Sonny13

I’m here, give me second to read everything

 

[Sonny13]

Wow, that spreadsheet of yours
Then your girl and enclosure

Well everything looks spot on. The first time was our worst, then everything went slowly to auto-pilot. My lays now almost every 4 months and all with typical behavior. First receptive and leaving her free range for almost one week in a row, then settling down for 2-3 weeks and then she starts to find her perfect spot and means leaving her free range again. This time it will be for 1 till 2 weeks row, with even not returning to her tree (the last 3 time clutches, we let her do her thing and don’t interfere with putting her back). This is also the time we wrapped the lower part of her free range (the planter) to give her privacy. Then prior to the egg laying she gets a gular edema (mostly 5 days before) and she loses appetite.

The thing I can only say what I’ve noticed and is different in your situation, she never digs at the same place, not even close and they like the leaf litter (at is bioactive) they completely camouflage the laying spot. I would cover the sides with a blanket or something that can give her privacy. Maybe she’s still searching for the perfect spot and I think she’s still to do it on her own, it’s not her first time (she should know what to do). We’re completely comfortable with the eye laying and really love the whole process they going thru and how we can read it.

Just give her some more time.

 

[Sonny13]

Already read this? https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/first-successful-free-range-bioactive-egg-laying.182715/

It keeps track on her egg laying

 

[elizaann2]

Wow, that spreadsheet of yours
Then your girl and enclosure

Well everything looks spot on. The first time was our worst, then everything went slowly to auto-pilot. My lays now almost every 4 months and all with typical behavior. First receptive and leaving her free range for almost one week in a row, then settling down for 2-3 weeks and then she starts to find her perfect spot and means leaving her free range again. This time it will be for 1 till 2 weeks row, with even not returning to her tree (the last 3 time clutches, we let her do her thing and don’t interfere with putting her back). This is also the time we wrapped the lower part of her free range (the planter) to give her privacy. Then prior to the egg laying she gets a gular edema (mostly 5 days before) and she loses appetite.

The thing I can only say what I’ve noticed and is different in your situation, she never digs at the same place, not even close and they like the leaf litter (at is bioactive) they completely camouflage the laying spot. I would cover the sides with a blanket or something that can give her privacy. Maybe she’s still searching for the perfect spot and I think she’s still to do it on her own, it’s not her first time (she should know what to do). We’re completely comfortable with the eye laying and really love the whole process they going thru and how we can read it.

Just give her some more time.

Thank you so much for your time and information. I do happen to have some leaf litter left over from when I did a bioactive enclosure for my gecko. I’ll put some in now.

So long as you don’t think it’s been too long I’ll keep waiting for her to do things on her own.

 

[elizaann2]

Already read this? https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/first-successful-free-range-bioactive-egg-laying.182715/

It keeps track on her egg laying

I have read this but it was a while back. I’ll re-read it. Thank you!

 

[Sonny13]

Already read this? https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/first-successful-free-range-bioactive-egg-laying.182715/

It keeps track on her egg laying

I have read this but it was a while back. I’ll re-read it. Thank you!

Especially the first part and clutch. It took ages and no eating for days. Yet she pulled it off on herself. Your husbandry is spot on and for others I wouldn’t directly give the “advice” to wait, but in your case I would. BUT, I’m completely no expert and only got reference from one veiled and one panther. And mostly I work pure on intuition, therefore hopefully other more experienced also chime in.

 

[elizaann2]

Already read this? https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/first-successful-free-range-bioactive-egg-laying.182715/

It keeps track on her egg laying

Especially the first part and clutch. It took ages and no eating for days. Yet she pulled it off on herself. Your husbandry is spot on and for others I wouldn’t directly give the “advice” to wait, but in your case I would. BUT, I’m completely no expert and only got reference from one veiled and one panther. And mostly I work pure on intuition, therefore hopefully other more experienced also chime in.

Just re-read the thread. I could add a second lay bin in there for her just to see if she takes to that better.

She has been roaming the enclosure more today than past days so hopefully she lays soon

Totally get it, all I can do is ask for advice from others that have more knowledge and experience than I do. I know it’s only advice. I think unless some says ‘take her in now’, I’ll continue to monitor her and see how she does. Any sign of distress and we will promptly go to the vet.

Thank you

 

[kinyonga]

This is always a dilemma…if you take a chameleon to the vet that is producing eggs, you’re stressing her out when she should be having peace and space and time alone to get through the procedures…however, if you don’t take her she might be having a problem and you won’t know about it or maybe not know about it in time to spay her if she needs it.….so not an easy decision to make….and one that I can’t answer for you.

 

[elizaann2]

This is always a dilemma…if you take a chameleon to the vet that is producing eggs, you’re stressing her out when she should be having peace and space and time alone to get through the procedures…however, if you don’t take her she might be having a problem and you won’t know about it or maybe not know about it in time to spay her if she needs it.….so not an easy decision to make….and one that I can’t answer for you.

I think I’ll just continue to keep a close eye on her then. I don’t want to stress her unnecessarily. There are still no signs of distress she is eating fine and just pooped yesterday. Today she has been more active so we will see what happens.

 

[MissSkittles]

She’s so gorgeous in her bright colors! Are those her gravid colors or does she darken? Has she been showing her gravid colors? Is she looking and acting more like she’s receptive again?

 

[elizaann2]

She’s so gorgeous in her bright colors! Are those her gravid colors or does she darken? Has she been showing her gravid colors? Is she looking and acting more like she’s receptive again?

Thank you, She really is so so beautiful. Her colors have darkened a little today to more of a mustard yellow rather than her typical bright colors. According to my spreadsheet from when she laid last time her colors did darken a few days before she laid.

I guess I’m still learning a lot about this. Are receptive colors and gravid colors different things?

 

[MissSkittles]

Are receptive colors and gravid colors different things?

Yes and no. Lol. You didn’t think there would be a simple straight forward answers did you? Some girls get very dark up to almost black with their color spots showing when gravid. Others have very subtle changes like maybe the dots getting a tad darker. When receptive, the colors are bright and clear. Here’s Stella in her phases.
Here she is receptive and with her brightest colors on as she’s gazing longingly at her forbidden love. (sneaking peeks of my male).

This is her standard receptive coloring - just her defined patterns and without the bright colors.

This is her gravid and just a few days before she laid her eggs. Not much of a difference at first glance, but if you look closer you’ll see her color/patterns aren’t so well defined as they are darker and her dots are connecting with darkness.

It’s all just a matter of knowing your girl’s looks for her different cycles. Also, don’t forget that it is very possible that even though she was receptive, she may not produce any eggs and go right back into another receptive cycle. That’s what mine did once ‘the regimen’ fully kicked in. One stopped all egg production and Stella lays just once a year. This year she‘s skipped her usual laying - I guess she thought I haven’t enough anxiety in my life. Just keep an eye out for any signs that she’s in distress - not basking, not eating/drinking, eyes closed, in/out of lay bin or random digging. Your husbandry is good and she’s proven not to have any issues laying, so hopefully it’s just the reduction in egg production kicking in.

 

[elizaann2]

Yes and no. Lol. You didn’t think there would be a simple straight forward answers did you? Some girls get very dark up to almost black with their color spots showing when gravid. Others have very subtle changes like maybe the dots getting a tad darker. When receptive, the colors are bright and clear. Here’s Stella in her phases.
Here she is receptive and with her brightest colors on as she’s gazing longingly at her forbidden love. (sneaking peeks of my male).
View attachment 341100
This is her standard receptive coloring - just her defined patterns and without the bright colors.
View attachment 341101
This is her gravid and just a few days before she laid her eggs. Not much of a difference at first glance, but if you look closer you’ll see her color/patterns aren’t so well defined as they are darker and her dots are connecting with darkness.
View attachment 341105
It’s all just a matter of knowing your girl’s looks for her different cycles. Also, don’t forget that it is very possible that even though she was receptive, she may not produce any eggs and go right back into another receptive cycle. That’s what mine did once ‘the regimen’ fully kicked in. One stopped all egg production and Stella lays just once a year. This year she‘s skipped her usual laying - I guess she thought I haven’t enough anxiety in my life. Just keep an eye out for any signs that she’s in distress - not basking, not eating/drinking, eyes closed, in/out of lay bin or random digging. Your husbandry is good and she’s proven not to have any issues laying, so hopefully it’s just the reduction in egg production kicking in.

Lol NEVER would I expect a straight answer when it comes to chameleons. It’s probably why I feel I struggle with them so much. I do better with black and whites. ‘It’s this or it’s not’. This hobby is totally making me grow in that area of my life

Thank you for the explanation and visuals this was actually very helpful for me. I know for a fact that my girls colors don’t change drastically and are more subtle when she is going to lay. I’ll continue to track her behaviors and colors in my spreadsheet so I have something to refer to next time around. And this helps me keep an eye on when she may be in the egg laying phase seeing there may be a slight change in her colors.

She for sure has eggs. Her last vet appointment in March she weighed 65 grams. She was 80 as of last night. I know I haven’t been over feeding her so the only other explanation for the weight gain is eggs.

I guess all I can do is continue to wait. Which I’m also not good at…