First Post & Is this a good cham?

[animal__lover]

Let me make it clear for you.... People that come here and are not open to info and come off with crappy comments like your schooling one really do themselves a disservice. You put experienced keepers off and then they don't want to share their experience with you. I was being nothing but helpful. Trying to explain why they charge what they do. Because your new and would not know the details of the hobby. I took my time to share with you.

This is a hard species to keep... Even for those of us who have unlimited funds and resources. I was not being rude in any way just giving you honest info and advice. Things I said like making sure you have a vet. That is important. If you stay here for awhile and read threads you will see many that are on dying chams... And guess what no reptile vet near them.

So I was being very honest and real with you. I won't sugar coat it because then you would get a cham and be in over your head. Like many many are.

I gave your resources to a plethora of accurate info. Because we see a lot of people here that have done a lot of research. Unfortunately from the wrong sites with inaccurate info so the cham is extremely sick and dying. Then the keeper feels the weight of the death because in the end it was up to them to provide the right husbandry... The thing is they thought they were because they did their research... So the cham is dead because they did the wrong research from incorrect sites and the keeper just did not know better.

We have many younger members here. Your age and younger. I mentor a few of them. I have no issue with your age. Ask any of them how much money they are in for their cham and you would be quite shocked. So I gave you a price range and hun it was a real one. If you sit an make a list of literally everything you will need....

2x2x4 cage, $125
Mistking $125
Fogger $50
Feeder run $25
dragon ledges and drip pan $125
mature Live plants $100
Organic soil and 1 inch stones $25
T5ho fixture with UVB bulb $60
T5ho fixture for plants with 6500k bulb $40
Dome fixture for heat $15
temp probe for basking $10
additional temp/humidity $20
Supplements $25

These are all minimum prices... $745 And I am sure I have forgotten additional things.

So again I was being honest... Take it or leave it. But if your going to continue to be rude just leave me out of your responses.

I'm sorry we started off on the wrong foot, I shouldn't have gotten defensive

 

[ERKleRose]

Ok thanks

When you get to the point of preparing the plants to go in the enclosure, make sure to clean them off properly! Ask as many questions as you need! Just make sure a quick search on here or The Chameleon Academy doesn’t already answer them, unless you need more detai!

 

[animal__lover]

You can manually mist.... It is not as natural for them though. Your sitting them spraying and watching them. Most are very secretive when it comes to drinking... Your presence then puts them off. But yes some do manually mist. Misting should only be done morning and evening when the cage is not as hot. But what if you have plans with friends or family. Or a school event you have to attend. Who is going to be there to manually mist the enclosure for 2-5 minutes? And I started out misting this way. It sucks.

Live plants are preferred over anything fake. Live balances humidity and makes the air cleaner. they are soft for them to sleep in and natural for them to move through. They can be in pots or fully bio active enclosure. Nothing wrong with a bio active enclosure if it is set up properly... But add at least another $200 for that.
Regular substrates not done bio actively are a no go. They turn into a soupy nasty bacteria breeding ground.

Well I am homeschooled and I have 6 siblings but yea your right

 

[animal__lover]

When you get to the point of preparing the plants to go in the enclosure, make sure to clean them off properly! Ask as many questions as you need! Just make sure a quick search on here or The Chameleon Academy doesn’t already answer them, unless you need more detai!

Ok will do! Where can I find them? Lowes? Amazon?

 

[ERKleRose]

Ok will do! Where can I find them? Lowes? Amazon?

The plants? Literally everywhere. Tons of online plant shops, Etsy, Amazon, the shopping tab after you Google search them, etc. In person at local nurseries, hardware and home improvement stores, Walmart, etc.

 

[animal__lover]

Amazon.com: Costa Farms Easy Care Devil's Ivy Golden Pothos Live Indoor Plant, 6-Inch: Garden & Outdoor Is this good?

 

[animal__lover]

The plants? Literally everywhere. Tons of online plant shops, Etsy, Amazon, the shopping tab after you Google search them, etc. In person at local nurseries, hardware and home improvement stores, Walmart, etc.

Awesome thanks!

 

[CasqueAbove]

just curious how much is a dragon strand cage?

I am about to do a write up on this. But it is a trick question. Dragon strand will come with everything you need plus Dragon Ledges. It will run around $325 I think.
But if you go with the cheaper brands, which are just fine, yo can add $50-$100 time you get the accessories like drain pan, mist mounts etc. So this is going to bring the real cost of the cheaper cage to around $200-$225.
If money is an immediate issue, I might suggest some easy DIY options. They are not as nice, but can be done cheaper until you can get the cage you really want. I have been seeing small green houses 24x60x60inches. This is a great size. They connect with tubes, so I bet the size could be altered. It has a plastic cover that you would cut windows in and glue screen for ventilation.

https://www.amazon.com/Greenhouse-O...ouse+kits+to+build&qid=1610387924&sr=8-5&th=1

 

[ERKleRose]

Amazon.com: Costa Farms Easy Care Devil's Ivy Golden Pothos Live Indoor Plant, 6-Inch: Garden & Outdoor Is this good?

Yes, but since you have time, shop around for cheap cuttings and grow out the plant yourself! I believe Etsy has them for only a few bucks. Also good advice for other plants, buy them small and cheap and grow them out yourself

 

[AmandaS]

 

[ERKleRose]

I am about to do a write up on this. But it is a trick question. Dragon strand will come with everything you need plus Dragon Ledges. It will run around $325 I think.
But if you go with the cheaper brands, which are just fine, yo can add $50-$100 time you get the accessories like drain pan, mist mounts etc. So this is going to bring the real cost of the cheaper cage to around $200-$225.
If money is an immediate issue, I might suggest some easy DIY options. They are not as nice, but can be done cheaper until you can get the cage you really want. I have been seeing small green houses 24x60x60inches. This is a great size. They connect with tubes, so I bet the size could be altered. It has a plastic cover that you would cut windows in and glue screen for ventilation.

https://www.amazon.com/Greenhouse-Outdoor-Anchors-Include-Seedlings/dp/B082FY3B9W/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=green+house+kits+to+build&qid=1610387924&sr=8-5&th=1

The cheapest DragonStrand a the correct size (4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall) is $532, I believe without shipping. You’ll also want the drainage solution as well, and depending on house humidity, the hybrid version of the cage, each raising the overall price

 

[AmandaS]

$325

$532

Eh. Same numbers, wrong order.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I felt like you were making it sound like if I didn't have 1k just sitting around I shouldn't get one at all.

That wouldn't be the worst idea I've ever heard. I've read literally dozens of articles & threads on costs of owning chameleons (and other reptiles) and I haven't found one yet that realistically included everything and was up-to-date.

Beman's post came up while I was composing this, but TBH—realistically—I think her numbers are kinda low. She also left out a big one (unintentionally, I'm sure)—shipping on all this stuff—including feeders. Shipping on feeders often comes close to—or as much as—the feeders themselves. You can raise your own, but that involves more one-time and ongoing expenses. When I ran the numbers, it didn't make sense to raise feeders for one or two lizards.

Hobbies are notorious money pits. What makes exotic animal keeping worse than many is the unpredictable contingencies that have to be dealt with—and paid for—asap. It's bad enough that enclosures, decor, plants, lighting, hydration gear (incl. fogging if nec.), instrumentation, etc. cost many times what the animal does; so—often—do the annual vet bills. One of the things I did to get a handle on that (before I got a lizard) was to drop a line to my local herp vet and ask what to budget annually for vet costs. He was very candid about it, told me the cost of a health check & fecal test, and advised me that those figures wouldn't include meds, imaging, surgeries, some procedures (e.g. euthanasia), recovery, and other unforeseeable expenses. In the end, he said on average, take the cost of one health check (office visit) and one fecal per year, double that, and if nothing major came up...

They tell you there are one-time and continuing expenses, but what if something goes wrong with one or more of those one-time expenses? What if your $100 worth of plants get a parasite or fungus and all need to be replaced? What if your mister crashes? What if your cat knocks over a lamp that crashes through the side of the enclosure and renders it unrepairable? I can't even list all the possibilities, because they're unpredictable and unforeseeable—that's the point.

Most small businesses fail because the owners are under-capitalized. That means they didn't provide enough of a cushion to account for unforeseen circumstances. The same thing happens (all too often, as most here can attest) to folks who get into this without a sufficient cushion.

We're not trying to talk anyone out of this; we want everyone to succeed.
We're trying to make people aware of the realities, based on our own experiences.

The worst part of undertaking a new adventure like this is, you don't know what you don't know, and since you don't, you don't know what to ask.

 

[CasqueAbove]

The cheapest DragonStrand a the correct size (4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall) is $532, I believe without shipping. You’ll also want the drainage solution as well, and depending on house humidity, the hybrid version of the cage, each raising the overall price

I have not looked in a bit. I did not know it was that High. I did say I think. I will have to re-evaluate some things.
for the record I am trying to collect all this on my site. There is also Zen habitats as mentioned, and I only know of the FB page but it is "Advanced Chameleon Caging" https://www.facebook.com/groups/154944078455211/user/1588489084

it is Tamura Designs, and they can be bioactive or not. Don't know about price.

 

[ERKleRose]

I have not looked in a bit. I did not know it was that High. I did say I think. I will have to re-evaluate some things.
for the record I am trying to collect all this on my site. There is also Zen habitats as mentioned, and I only know of the FB page but it is "Advanced Chameleon Caging" https://www.facebook.com/groups/154944078455211/user/1588489084

it is Tamura Designs, and they can be bioactive or not. Don't know about price.

Tamura Designs is more expensive I believe. His non-PVC cages are my favorite from him (the ones over the flood table with the aluminum bars). I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE ADVANCED CHAMELEON CAGING FB GROUP!!!

 

[CasqueAbove]

The cheapest DragonStrand a the correct size (4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall) is $532, I believe without shipping. You’ll also want the drainage solution as well, and depending on house humidity, the hybrid version of the cage, each raising the overall price

WAIT I was right.
https://dragonstrand.com/product/tall-screen-chameleon-cage-system/

this is $330 for the
Tall Screen Chameleon Cage System
$330.00

This would be the comparable version to the all screen cage.

You are 100% dead on about add ons though. But that is opptional, but at least you can get a hybrid or glass front, or 2x4x4ft. If you have the means.

 

[CasqueAbove]

Tamura Designs is more expensive I believe. His non-PVC cages are my favorite from him (the ones over the flood table with the aluminum bars). I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE ADVANCED CHAMELEON CAGING FB GROUP!!!

I have only recently learned of them. Does he have a site? I would love to list them when I get more info.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

it is Tamura Designs, and they can be bioactive or not. Don't know about price.

FWIW, there are 2 businesses on FB with that exact same name. One is a landscaping place (but I don't think it's between... nevermind. )

Looks like the chameleon enclosure place is doing high-end(?)

We specialize in high end chameleon products and CB Melleri lines.

 

[ERKleRose]

I have only recently learned of them. Does he have a site? I would love to list them when I get more info.

Only on Instagram and Facebook, I believe. I can’t remember if his cages have enough ventilation (i.e. minimum at chimney effect) though. They used to be custom order only, but he’s lately (as in last few years) been putting out batches for people to buy

 

[animal__lover]

Hey guys, so after a lot of thought and praying I have decided not to get a chameleon. I feel like I wouldn't be able to care for him properly. With me finishing highschool at 17, then college and vet school I won't have time or money for something so demanding. I want to thank all of ya'll for helping me realize that a chameleon is too much.