First Post & Is this a good cham?

[aapuzzo]

DIY Cages is having a sale right now! A majority of people prefer them over Zoo Med. This is the bare minimum size, though. Unfortunately tons of keepers only use this size since it is the biggest commercially-made size for a relatively small amount of money. Dragon Strand‘s biggest size is 4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall, but can be inked with more to expand it. They are around 5x the price of Zoo Meds and DIY Cages, though.
https://www.diycages.com/collection...ducts/sc4-48x24x24-jumbo-vertical-screen-cage

Those look good for solid for about $15 more. They added metal corners and a handle? Do the same substrate trays works? The reptibreeze delux for ~$40 more has an acrylic door, LED lighting and comes with substrate tray that cost ~$20.

Some people say a reptibreeze large 18x18x36 works for Panthers since a little smaller than veiled and also go with smaller sizes for females. I just would get the XL though so it works for anything.

Cage sizes always make me wonder what you should really do. I think the rule is just the biggest you can do without loosing the reptile in it. I laugh when people say ackie monitors need 4x2x4 but then say larger monitors need a cage 1ft bigger than the monitor. Personally in that case I think the other monitor needs a bigger cage. Honestly I think a chameleon can work in a smaller cage if you put it up high since thats where they want to be anyway pending you can maintain a thermal gradient. If you can get it off the floor I think width is more important. My Veileds always sat near the top 1/3 80% of the time unless looking for food.

 

[ERKleRose]

Those look good for solid for about $15 more. They added metal corners and a handle? Do the same substrate trays works? The reptibreeze delux for ~$40 more has an acrylic door, LED lighting and comes with substrate tray that cost ~$20.

Some peopel say a reptibreeze large 18x18x36 works for Panthers since a little smaller than veiled and also go with smaller sizes for females. I just would get the XL though so it works for anything.

Panthers and veileds are around the same size. 2’ x 2’ x 4’ tall cages are the BARE MINIMUM! Which means we need to strive for as big of cages as possible! Most people, including lots of experienced keepers and tons of breeders, buy the bare minimum instead of going as big as they can get. Bill Strand and others are trying to raise the bare minimum size to 4’ x 2’ x 4’ tall for panthers and veileds, so they can have some space!

 

[caroline?]

just curious how much is a dragon strand cage?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

.

Cage sizes always make me wonder what you should really do.

Not everyone can, but I ascribe to, "as big as you can afford, but at least..." philosophy.
The only difference is that I've been swayed by a different "at least"...

Reptile Housing: Size, Dimension and Lifestyle

Calculations still offer a range of enclosure sizes, depending on various factors.

 

[animal__lover]

I bought a 2x2x4 Reptibreeze XL screen cage on Friday locally. I don't think you will be able to build a cage cheaper than a Reptibreeze XL and if you can I can't see it being worth the effort if you are just looking for something that works and doesn't look like 2x4s with hardware cloth. Hardware cloth isn't cheap either. In my opinion the Reptibreeze looks better than 2x4s with hardware cloth also and can be easily taken apart for storage and takes up no room when disassembled. Now if you are looking for something nicer I'm sure you can build something but in my opinion I would own a premade Reptibreeze or equivalent before building one. After owning a chameleon you will have more of an opinion on how you want to customize your cage for the fixtures and things you have including controlling humidity for your house. Also if you make a mistake you could injure the Chameleon.

I don't know if you are in the US but Petco has them right now. I see Amazon is out.

Yeah, I'm in the US. I will def look at petco, how much are they?

 

[Beman]

Yes, I know they are expensive, I don't need to be schooled on that. I am planning on buying a 2'x2'x4' cage and all the required supplies. I am willing to pay for it.

Since your only 15, I am going to assume that you did not mean to be rude... I was not trying to "school" you. I was attempting to share info with you. But apparently you know it all being brand new to the hobby. Good luck to you.

 

[animal__lover]

Since your only 15, I am going to assume that you did not mean to be rude... I was not trying to "school" you. I was attempting to share info with you. But apparently you know it all being brand new to the hobby. Good luck to you.

I'm sorry, wrong choice of words. I didn't mean to offend you

 

[aapuzzo]

Yeah, I'm in the US. I will def look at petco, how much are they?

Most places around $110. Check the Petco website. That DIY cage looks nice though and is about the same price. I just go with Zoomed Reptibreeze because I can grab them locally and support my local pet shop and when I get the urge to do something and have the time I don't want to wait. Also the substrate trays and drainage bases all fit them. Years ago I bought a drip tray for another suppliers screen 24x24x48 and it wasn't exactly the right size for my Reptibreeze even though it said 24x24x48 screen cage but they meant theirs apparently. The Reptibreeze fell right through the middle of it because the other cage must have been 1/2" bigger in each direction. Also people make Reptibreeze background inserts and I know if I have a Reptibreeze they will fit and not have to deal with trimming or crickets getting behind it (as much).

 

[animal__lover]

Most places around $100. Check the Petco website. That DIY cage looks nice though and is about the same price. I just go with Zoomed Reptibreeze because I can grab them locally and support my local pet shop.

Yeah DIY cages is on sale at $125 rn, so I'll prolly go with Zoomed

 

[animal__lover]

Since your only 15, I am going to assume that you did not mean to be rude... I was not trying to "school" you. I was attempting to share info with you. But apparently you know it all being brand new to the hobby. Good luck to you.

However I am a teenager who isn't made of money so saving $100 that could go towards a better setup is important to me. I felt like you were making it sound like if I didn't have 1k just sitting around I shouldn't get one at all. Yeah, $300 is a lot of money! I'm not employed at the moment so getting that much is pretty hard. I will have a job before a get a chameleon so I WILL be able to afford it.

 

[animal__lover]

Since your only 15, I am going to assume that you did not mean to be rude... I was not trying to "school" you. I was attempting to share info with you. But apparently you know it all being brand new to the hobby. Good luck to you.

And if I knew it all, I wouldn't be here asking questions. Everyone else here has made me feel welcome except you.

 

[Beman]

However I am a teenager who isn't made of money so saving $100 that could go towards a better setup is important to me. I felt like you were making it sound like if I didn't have 1k just sitting around I shouldn't get one at all. Yeah, $300 is a lot of money! I'm not employed at the moment so getting that much is pretty hard. I will have a job before a get a chameleon so I WILL be able to afford it.

And if I knew it all, I wouldn't be here asking questions. Everyone else here has made me feel welcome except you.

Let me make it clear for you.... People that come here and are not open to info and come off with crappy comments like your schooling one really do themselves a disservice. You put experienced keepers off and then they don't want to share their experience with you. I was being nothing but helpful. Trying to explain why they charge what they do. Because your new and would not know the details of the hobby. I took my time to share with you.

This is a hard species to keep... Even for those of us who have unlimited funds and resources. I was not being rude in any way just giving you honest info and advice. Things I said like making sure you have a vet. That is important. If you stay here for awhile and read threads you will see many that are on dying chams... And guess what no reptile vet near them.

So I was being very honest and real with you. I won't sugar coat it because then you would get a cham and be in over your head. Like many many are.

I gave your resources to a plethora of accurate info. Because we see a lot of people here that have done a lot of research. Unfortunately from the wrong sites with inaccurate info so the cham is extremely sick and dying. Then the keeper feels the weight of the death because in the end it was up to them to provide the right husbandry... The thing is they thought they were because they did their research... So the cham is dead because they did the wrong research from incorrect sites and the keeper just did not know better.

We have many younger members here. Your age and younger. I mentor a few of them. I have no issue with your age. Ask any of them how much money they are in for their cham and you would be quite shocked. So I gave you a price range and hun it was a real one. If you sit an make a list of literally everything you will need....

2x2x4 cage, $125
Mistking $125
Fogger $50
Feeder run $25
dragon ledges and drip pan $125
mature Live plants $100
Organic soil and 1 inch stones $25
T5ho fixture with UVB bulb $60
T5ho fixture for plants with 6500k bulb $40
Dome fixture for heat $15
temp probe for basking $10
additional temp/humidity $20
Supplements $25

These are all minimum prices... $745 And I am sure I have forgotten additional things.

So again I was being honest... Take it or leave it. But if your going to continue to be rude just leave me out of your responses.

 

[animal__lover]

Let me make it clear for you.... People that come here and are not open to info and come off with crappy comments like your schooling one really do themselves a disservice. You put experienced keepers off and then they don't want to share their experience with you. I was being nothing but helpful. Trying to explain why they charge what they do. Because your new and would not know the details of the hobby. I took my time to share with you.

This is a hard species to keep... Even for those of us who have unlimited funds and resources. I was not being rude in any way just giving you honest info and advice. Things I said like making sure you have a vet. That is important. If you stay here for awhile and read threads you will see many that are on dying chams... And guess what no reptile vet near them.

So I was being very honest and real with you. I won't sugar coat it because then you would get a cham and be in over your head. Like many many are.

I gave your resources to a plethora of accurate info. Because we see a lot of people here that have done a lot of research. Unfortunately from the wrong sites with inaccurate info so the cham is extremely sick and dying. Then the keeper feels the weight of the death because in the end it was up to them to provide the right husbandry... The thing is they thought they were because they did their research... So the cham is dead because they did the wrong research from incorrect sites and the keeper just did not know better.

We have many younger members here. Your age and younger. I mentor a few of them. I have no issue with your age. Ask any of them how much money they are in for their cham and you would be quite shocked. So I gave you a price range and hun it was a real one. If you sit an make a list of literally everything you will need....

2x2x4 cage, $125
Mistking $125
Fogger $50
Feeder run $25
dragon ledges and drip pan $125
mature Live plants $100
Organic soil and 1 inch stones $25
T5ho fixture with UVB bulb $60
T5ho fixture for plants with 6500k bulb $40
Dome fixture for heat $15
temp probe for basking $10
additional temp/humidity $20
Supplements $25

These are all minimum prices... $745 And I am sure I have forgotten additional things.

So again I was being honest... Take it or leave it. But if your going to continue to be rude just leave me out of your responses.

I have heard from several panther owners that you can manually mist the cage 2x daily, and you can can you a old milk jug as a dripper. I have also heard some controversy over using live plants and substrates. Thoughts?

 

[ERKleRose]

Let me make it clear for you.... People that come here and are not open to info and come off with crappy comments like your schooling one really do themselves a disservice. You put experienced keepers off and then they don't want to share their experience with you. I was being nothing but helpful. Trying to explain why they charge what they do. Because your new and would not know the details of the hobby. I took my time to share with you.

This is a hard species to keep... Even for those of us who have unlimited funds and resources. I was not being rude in any way just giving you honest info and advice. Things I said like making sure you have a vet. That is important. If you stay here for awhile and read threads you will see many that are on dying chams... And guess what no reptile vet near them.

So I was being very honest and real with you. I won't sugar coat it because then you would get a cham and be in over your head. Like many many are.

I gave your resources to a plethora of accurate info. Because we see a lot of people here that have done a lot of research. Unfortunately from the wrong sites with inaccurate info so the cham is extremely sick and dying. Then the keeper feels the weight of the death because in the end it was up to them to provide the right husbandry... The thing is they thought they were because they did their research... So the cham is dead because they did the wrong research from incorrect sites and the keeper just did not know better.

We have many younger members here. Your age and younger. I mentor a few of them. I have no issue with your age. Ask any of them how much money they are in for their cham and you would be quite shocked. So I gave you a price range and hun it was a real one. If you sit an make a list of literally everything you will need....

2x2x4 cage, $125
Mistking $125
Fogger $50
Feeder run $25
dragon ledges and drip pan $125
mature Live plants $100
Organic soil and 1 inch stones $25
T5ho fixture with UVB bulb $60
T5ho fixture for plants with 6500k bulb $40
Dome fixture for heat $15
temp probe for basking $10
additional temp/humidity $20
Supplements $25

These are all minimum prices... $745 And I am sure I have forgotten additional things.

So again I was being honest... Take it or leave it. But if your going to continue to be rude just leave me out of your responses.

Don’t forget at least the UVI Solarmeter (I have the UVI and UVB versions) and emergency vet fund (minimum $300, but mine is anywhere from $600/800-1200)

 

[ERKleRose]

I have heard from several panther owners that you can manually mist the cage 2x daily, and you can can you a old milk jug as a dripper. I have also heard some controversy over using live plants and substrates. Thoughts?

Automatic misting is way better. Always use live plants! No substrates for you for now. It is advanced

 

[animal__lover]

Don’t forget at least the UVI Solarmeter (I have the UVI and UVB versions) and emergency vet fund (minimum $300, but mine is anywhere from $600/800-1200)

Ok will do!

 

[animal__lover]

Automatic misting is way better. Always use live plants! No substrates for you for now. It is advanced

Where can I find a list of safe live plants and what would you recommend?

 

[Beman]

I have heard from several panther owners that you can manually mist the cage 2x daily, and you can can you a old milk jug as a dripper. I have also heard some controversy over using live plants and substrates. Thoughts?

You can manually mist.... It is not as natural for them though. Your sitting them spraying and watching them. Most are very secretive when it comes to drinking... Your presence then puts them off. But yes some do manually mist. Misting should only be done morning and evening when the cage is not as hot. But what if you have plans with friends or family. Or a school event you have to attend. Who is going to be there to manually mist the enclosure for 2-5 minutes? And I started out misting this way. It sucks.

Live plants are preferred over anything fake. Live balances humidity and makes the air cleaner. they are soft for them to sleep in and natural for them to move through. They can be in pots or fully bio active enclosure. Nothing wrong with a bio active enclosure if it is set up properly... But add at least another $200 for that.
Regular substrates not done bio actively are a no go. They turn into a soupy nasty bacteria breeding ground.

 

[ERKleRose]

Where can I find a list of safe live plants and what would you recommend?

The Chameleon Academy and FL Chams each have extensive ones. There is a shorter list on here under the resources tab

 

[animal__lover]

The Chameleon Academy and FL Chams each have extensive ones. There is a shorter list on here under the resources tab

Ok thanks