Female Panther Reluctant to Use back leg

alice710

New Member
Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon -
Female Panther Chameleon
Unsure of exact age but for consistancy we dubbed her birthday 1/1/22 (9-10 months old)

Handling - I haven't been able to take her out yet. I have been putting my hand in the cage to get her used to it and she does not run from me, but she will only climb on my hand when it is still, as soon as I try to slowly move it out of the cage she gets off.

Feeding - Gutloaded crickets, dubia roaches, morio worms and silkworms.

I feed a mix of crickets, dubias and silkworms daily. Sometimes I vary the ratios and amounts. I feed until she is full, offering more until shes done. On average she eats about 6-10 insects a day but there are some days where she will eat lots, then only eat a little the next and vice versa.

Morio worms are a treat and I feed about 2-3 of them a week.

Gutload varies depending on what I make up but I use this guide and pick about 2-3 things from each section.

Gutload:
70% - Spring greens, Dandelion leaves, Basil, Coriander, Spearmint, Watercress, Romaine, Rocket

10% Alfalfa, butternut squash, carrots, rosemary, sweet potato, peas, sweet potato

10% Apples, Bananas, black/blueberries, oranges, papaya

5% Oats, flax ground almonds, sesame seeds, poppy seeds

5% Bee pollen, Cholerella, mulberry leaves, hibiscus powder, spirulina

Supplements -
Arcadia EarthPro-A every feed.

Arcadia CalciumPro Mg - Every other week, alternating with the D3

Arcadia EarthPro RevitaliseD3 - Every other week.

Watering - Misting with a hand mister.
Every morning for about 2 mins.
Afternoon - Occasionally, if she didnt get a good drink in the morning for a min or two.
Every evening for 2 mins before the lights shut off.
If she is particularly thirsty I will mist until she is done drinking.

Fecal Description - Never tested for parasites to my knowledge.
About 80% brown and 20% whitish with a small tinge of orange. They hold a form but are not hard and squish under pressure. Sometimes there is more white.

History -
I am a novice and this girl was not an intended purchase. A relative (her pervious owner) passed away and she was offered to me, it was a 'I take her or she stays in the house with nobody to provide care for her' kind of situation.
I have had her around 2-3 months.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Glass. Dimensions are about 4ft high, 3ft long, 2.5ft deep

Lighting - Not sure about the brands as I did not purchase them.

She has a UV light and a Heat lamp with a thermostat.

Both light stay on from 8.30am - 9pm. Heat lamp is set to switch off if her basking spot gets over 33C

Temperature -
Basking is a max of 33C
Most of the rest of the cage sits at about 27C. At night temps get as low as 14C but usually are more around 18C.

I have a temperture gage on the side of the setup.

Humidity - It usually sits at around 60-80%, fluctuating a little during the day.

Plants - I have some plastic vines that came with her setup draped over the back. I would like to take them down but she uses them to sleep in so it would probably do more harm than good until I can find a substitute.
I have a pot in there with a house plant in, I don't remember the name but I researched it as safe.

Placement -
Next to a window, but this window is almost always closed and has a curtain covering it. She is in the living room which isn't very high traffic and has 1 peson and a dog coming in and out occasionally as well as sitting for a few hours a day.
She has a fan on top of her setup for extra ventilation.
Her setup is about 4ft off the ground on a cupboard stand.


Location - South West England


Current Problem -

She has been reluctant on using one of her hind legs to climb. When resting she will let it just hang. I have seen her using it to grasp branches, but only if she has to.
I have had a good look at it and am able to move it and bend the joints and close the foot without her flinching or pulling away. I can't see anything visually such as swelling or a small wound of any kind. Not sure what is borhering her about it, maybe the start of something?

I will take her to the vet on Monday but I noticed it this afternoon and in my area vets are closed for weekends.
Any tips on transporting her there would be appreciated.

My local vet claims to treat exotics but it seems like they mostly do guess work with anything that isn't a cat or dog; I have taken mice there before on several occasions (all for different things) and every time they just offer an antibiotic.
So if anyone happens to know somewhere in my area that specalises more that would be awesome!
 

alice710

New Member
Welcome to the forum!

Can you please post some photos of your chameleon and the leg as well as the whole cage including thr lights?
I can in about 9 hours once her lights are back on. It's currently 11pm here and she is sleeping!

Here's a few pics of her setup I took a few weeks ago to tide you over (laybin has since been added). But I will get a pic of the leg and lights in the morning!
 

alice710

New Member
Welcome to the forum!

Can you please post some photos of your chameleon and the leg as well as the whole cage including thr lights?
20220917_162405.jpg
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alice710

New Member
Welcome to the forum!

Can you please post some photos of your chameleon and the leg as well as the whole cage including thr lights?
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Here's the leg. Of course she was in the most awkward position for me to take pics of it! haha
 

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MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hi. I’ve only looked at the pics so far. Hard to see but it looks like either gout or injury…possibly an abscess. Give me a bit and I’ll go thru your husbandry. I am working and hopefully won’t get called away.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
It’s her ‘good’ back leg that I see the abnormal bumps. Does she have those on her bad leg too?
17D24F3E-D3D2-4007-A85E-8149A87200A9.jpeg
Your husbandry looks okay. Your temps are too high…basking should be no higher than about 27c and at night a drop down to at least 20 is great. You are overfeeding, which can lead to overproduction of eggs and resultant problems with laying...not to mention obesity. She should be getting 3-4 appropriately sized feeders, 3 days a week (plus occasional treats). I would suggest changing her uvb bulb and possibly the fixture too. The ideal fixture is a T5HO and then you’ll need either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%. Arcadia bulbs need to be changed every year and ReptiSun, every 6 months (unless you have a solarmeter 6.5 to monitor their output).
I’m really at a loss about her bad leg. @kinyonga may have some ideas. For the vet, most of us travel a bit for a good vet with experience with chameleons. If you’ve no other choice but this vet, an x ray should be done as well as some labs. Perhaps he has a colleague with chameleon experience he can communicate with.
Not related to the leg, but does she have a lay bin? It”# a good idea to keep one in the enclosure permanently to avoid having to guess when it’s needed.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
I noticed the condition of the leg. Sorry for not answering sooner...had some things to look after.
Unfortunately at the moment I'm not sure what's going on with the leg...but I really think you will need to see a good chameleon vet for it regardless of what it is.
 

alice710

New Member
It’s her ‘good’ back leg that I see the abnormal bumps. Does she have those on her bad leg too?
View attachment 329619
Your husbandry looks okay. Your temps are too high…basking should be no higher than about 27c and at night a drop down to at least 20 is great. You are overfeeding, which can lead to overproduction of eggs and resultant problems with laying...not to mention obesity. She should be getting 3-4 appropriately sized feeders, 3 days a week (plus occasional treats). I would suggest changing her uvb bulb and possibly the fixture too. The ideal fixture is a T5HO and then you’ll need either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%. Arcadia bulbs need to be changed every year and ReptiSun, every 6 months (unless you have a solarmeter 6.5 to monitor their output).
I’m really at a loss about her bad leg. @kinyonga may have some ideas. For the vet, most of us travel a bit for a good vet with experience with chameleons. If you’ve no other choice but this vet, an x ray should be done as well as some labs. Perhaps he has a colleague with chameleon experience he can communicate with.
Not related to the leg, but does she have a lay bin? It”# a good idea to keep one in the enclosure permanently to avoid having to guess when it’s needed.
It's so hard to get an accurate guide for the temps, I feel like every place I look has something different listed! I have turned her thermostat down to reflect the temps you gave. I assume that wouldn't directly effect her leg though, considering there are no burns? Still thank you for pointing that out.

Same with the feeding! From research I gathered that under 1 year old you basically feed them as much as they will eat and slowly taper it the closer you get to a year old. I will adjust her diet too so she does not get too plump. Could that effect the leg at all?

As for the bumps, she has always had those on both legs since I got her so I just assumed they were normal. The shadow makes them look more dramatic than they do in even lighting but they are definitely there.

The vet I have is definitely not a place for exotics (even if they advertise otherwise). I take my cat and dogs there and its fine, but anything past that they are just guessing, looking stuff up on the computer during appoimtments, never being able to actually diagnose issues. I just worry it will be a wasted trip that will stress her out. I have tried to look up specialists but as you said they are quite a drive. The 'looking for a new vet' situation is also not great in the UK, a lot of places arent taking on brand new clients due to post-covid backlog.

She has a laybin in there now yes! Its how I found out dubias can burrow very fast when they are dropped and want to get out of the light lol
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
While your pics aren’t as clear as I’d like, I do see what appear to be abnormal bumps around or just below her knees. Looking at another pic, I do see it on her bad leg too. Those are not normal bumps, but it is strange that she has them on both sides. Btw, she has the sweetest little face. 🤗
There are many members of the forum from the UK, but I can’t recall who all is from where and haven’t a clue about UK geography. Perhaps start a new post specifically titled something to catch their eyes about finding a good vet in the UK.
 
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