Do healthy Chameleons ever pass urate only?

M

MonoNatural

Member
I have a new baby Veiled chameleon, less than 1 month old. He eats and drinks heartily, but I have only ever found his 'true' poop twice in the 5 days I've had him. I have found tiny amounts of urate only, and this worries me. Also, the real poops I have found don't seem to correspond to the volume of crickets he eats. He was deathly skinny when I bought him, but I seem to have fattened him up with feeding.
I am sick with worry, waiting every day to find poop, and I don't want to take him back to the store because they'll just put him back in a tiny glass tank and keep giving him herptivite and probably inadequate water. I highly doubt any of the vets in my area have ANY experience with Chams at all, so I am reluctant to put him in a tiny container for hours and spend hundreds of dollars to have him poked and prodded.

Is it possible for a chameleon to pass urate only? Or does that mean he is definitely constipated?

Your Chameleon - veiled cham,male, less than 1 month old - tiny little guy
Handling - as little as possible.
Feeding - eats about 6-10 small crickets/day
Supplements - calcium without d3 dust every feeding, gave repti-vite once because the store that sold him to me said they were giving him herptivite for suspected eye problem (blinking one eye), but his eyes look fine to me.
Watering - I mist at least twice/day, he drinks frequently
Fecal Description - small, slightly larger than large pea sized brown lumps, urate looks fine, white lump with a little bit of orangish fluid
History -rescued from a pet store.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - nylon screen, 3'x1.5'x1.5'tall, had him in a much bigger one but he kept falling.
Lighting - zoomed repti sun 5.0 13w and a 75 watt zoomed basking lamp
Temperature - 81-85 ish basking spot, room temperature at cool corners.
Humidity - fairly humid.
Plants - Kalanchoe plants, had him in a big cage with umbrella plant which he loved, but like I say, he falls..
Placement - On my kitchen table
Location - Central canada
 
You're doing fantastically with your chammy! Urate-only defecations are normal, especially for a hearty drinker. It is common for veileds (and other chameleons, I believe) to actually defecate feces once or twice a week, or more or less depending on temperature and humidity and food type! Continue to feed and offer plenty of water. Continue to mist, and I know most members here will say that a shallow bowl for your Cham to drink from won't be any use, but my veiled actually drinks from a small bowl and has never been more hydrated, at least without hornworms (I've had him about a year and a half). I'm proud of you and glad you worry about your baby! Keep it up!
 
As long as the urates look normal I wouldn't worry too much. Though is he only eating 6-10 crickets a day because that's all you offer? Or because that's all he wants? What I would be more worried about is he's not getting enough to eat for his age... not sure though. The whole thing is most babies his age defecate feces and urates every day. But you've only had him five days right? And you said he was rather thin when you got him? It may just be his system hasn't quite caught up to his food intake yet. Keep an eye on him for sure. But from the sounds of it everything else is normal?

What I am more worried about is the falling he originally had issues with? Was there a specific reason for it? Does he have a dripper? Misting only twice a day without a dripper is not enough water otherwise.
 
Andee said:
As long as the urates look normal I wouldn't worry too much. Though is he only eating 6-10 crickets a day because that's all you offer? Or because that's all he wants? What I would be more worried about is he's not getting enough to eat for his age... not sure though. The whole thing is most babies his age defecate feces and urates every day. But you've only had him five days right? And you said he was rather thin when you got him? It may just be his system hasn't quite caught up to his food intake yet. Keep an eye on him for sure. But from the sounds of it everything else is normal?

What I am more worried about is the falling he originally had issues with? Was there a specific reason for it? Does he have a dripper? Misting only twice a day without a dripper is not enough water otherwise.
Click to expand...

Based on the number of living crickets remaining, I estimate he eats 6-10. No I don't have a dripper, but I am installing a Monsoon Solo today. I have always made sure that there are significant water droplets on the leaves for him to drink, while giving enough time for most of it to dry up between mistings. He is never without a source of water.
Most of the times I saw him fall in the larger cage were cases where he was going after a cricket that was climbing the side of the cage, and he slipped off the leaf he was grasping. He will not eat anything from a cup so free-roaming has been my only option.
Like I said he was not in great shape when I got him. He had been eating silk plants on a daily basis for weeks at the store.
 
What I would be worried about most is if he had a slight case of calcium deficiency.... or some sort of vitamin deficiency.... do you have any pictures?
 
MonoNatural said:
Thanks for the info and for your encouragement!
Click to expand...
You're most welcome! I do agree that the falling issue is a thing to keep a close eye on. Chameleons have very small bones that can easily be broken. However, they fall in the wild, too! They will even intentionally fall if they feel threatened by something that could potentially eat them. But many bones that break in chameleons can't really be treated by vets, and it is a very pricey visit. Legs can be more easily helped than a rib. And the vet visit can put a lot of stress on the animal. You would have to judge whether it may or may not be worth the trip (if you ever feel the need to go). If you can, gently coax the chameleon into your hand and try to judge if her grip is tight enough (since it's a rescue, maybe last injured feet?) and check for anything that could be continuously spooking the chammy throughout the day, perhaps causing him to fall. Just shooting out ideas to look for!
 
Andee said:
What I would be worried about most is if he had a slight case of calcium deficiency.... or some sort of vitamin deficiency.... do you have any pictures?
Click to expand...
Not at the moment. I am at work and I went home on my lunch break 30 min ago and I found a normal dropping, so he is pooping, thankfully. I have been dusting all the crickets with calcium and on the first day I dusted with reptivite, so if there is a deficiency there would be nothing short of drastic measures to remedy it.
 
Haven27 said:
You're most welcome! I do agree that the falling issue is a thing to keep a close eye on. Chameleons have very small bones that can easily be broken. However, they fall in the wild, too! They will even intentionally fall if they feel threatened by something that could potentially eat them. But many bones that break in chameleons can't really be treated by vets, and it is a very pricey visit. Legs can be more easily helped than a rib. And the vet visit can put a lot of stress on the animal. You would have to judge whether it may or may not be worth the trip (if you ever feel the need to go). If you can, gently coax the chameleon into your hand and try to judge if her grip is tight enough (since it's a rescue, maybe last injured feet?) and check for anything that could be continuously spooking the chammy throughout the day, perhaps causing him to fall. Just shooting out ideas to look for!
Click to expand...
And yes! Look for deficiencies and what appear to be bent or broken bones! Falling off of a leaf can also be poor judgement on the chammy's part XD
 
No a deficiency can start as early as birth and honestly can take as long as several months to heal even if it really just started over a couple weeks. Early deficiencies show up with squinting and general eye issues, falling, poor hunting techniques, and poor intestinal movements. Then it goes to favoring legs and showing up in bones. With dusting some of it can be solved, but a l9t of things need to be to help, and they aren't really drastic in my opinion.
 
Andee said:
No a deficiency can start as early as birth and honestly can take as long as several months to heal even if it really just started over a couple weeks. Early deficiencies show up with squinting and general eye issues, falling, poor hunting techniques, and poor intestinal movements. Then it goes to favoring legs and showing up in bones. With dusting some of it can be solved, but a l9t of things need to be to help, and they aren't really drastic in my opinion.
Click to expand...

In that case, how often do you recommend giving Reptivite for a <1mth chameleon?
 
Are you sure he's less than one month old?

And what type of reptivite are we talking about? Does it have added D3?
 
Is this the chameleon that was eating the fake plant leaves?
If so...I would wonder if it was impacted if it didn't pass feces.

Kalanchoe is toxic to many animals. They contwin cardiac glycosides.

I'm wouldn't keep the cage on the kitchen table myself. To me its unsanitary.

What do you feed/gutload crickets with?
 
kinyonga said:
Is this the chameleon that was eating the fake plant leaves?
If so...I would wonder if it was impacted if it didn't pass feces.

Kalanchoe is toxic to many animals. They contwin cardiac glycosides.

I'm wouldn't keep the cage on the kitchen table myself. To me its unsanitary.

What do you feed/gutload crickets with?
Click to expand...

Yes this is the one who was eating silk plants, but he has had a regular bowel movement a few times since I got him so I don't think that's an issue anymore.

Kalanchoe is listed as 'Chamelon Safe' on this list: http://flchams.com/chameleon-safe-plant-list/
And they are native to Madagascar (though I know that Veileds are not directly from there).
Quite a few websites have this list including Kalanchoe, and a few threads on Chameleonforums mention them casually: https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/what-plant-is-this-is-it-safe-for-my-chameleon.127934/
Do you know of any cases of them being poisoned by it? He has taken a few bites out of them but I'm also providing him some lettuce which he seems to like.

The crickets are getting Flukers Orange cube, and some apple and parsley.

I sterilized my kitchen table before putting this cage on it, and I don't eat on the table anyway, I live alone and eat on the couch like a peasant. Lucky I didn't elect to put the cage in the bathroom. (y)
 
Last edited:
Kalanchoes...
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/toxicology-brief-kalanchoe-species-poisoning-pets
http://www.cbif.gc.ca/eng/species-b...gremontiana-scientific-name/?id=1370403266907

I'm not saying the table is unsanitary...I'm saying the cage is.

Your gutload/feeding of the insects could be improved. I use a wide assortment of greens such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, and a small amount of fruit such as berries, melon, apple, pear.
 
kinyonga said:
Kalanchoes...
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/toxicology-brief-kalanchoe-species-poisoning-pets
http://www.cbif.gc.ca/eng/species-b...gremontiana-scientific-name/?id=1370403266907

I'm not saying the table is unsanitary...I'm saying the cage is.

Your gutload/feeding of the insects could be improved. I use a wide assortment of greens such as dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, and a small amount of fruit such as berries, melon, apple, pear.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that advice. I don't see anything on those pages about chameleons or lizards in general, though. Everyone says Pothos is great for Chams, but it is also very poisonous to cats and dogs. It would seem that lizards have some immunity to these things.
Do you know of any link between malnutrition and passing only urate?
 
kinyonga said:
Kalanchoes...
http://petcaretips.net/poisonous-plants-turtles-lizards.html

Maybe you'll find some info in this thread that will help...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/poop-101.120171/
Click to expand...

Thanks for all that. I did already get some satisfactory answers to the question I created this thread to ask. That 'poop' thread does not address this issue.

I wonder why FL Chams and other cham-safe plant lists say Kalanchoes are fine, but that one link says its deadly. Do you also warn against Pothos with such vigour?
 
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