Digging...

Heika

New Member
My new female panther, Shalamar, has started digging her hole today.. thought I would share a not-very-good-from-a-distance-do-not-disturb picture of her tail and back legs. So much for laying around the root ball of the plant... :D

 
Hehe, don't count her out just yet, she may be tunneling towards that rootball after all. I've seen them dig surprisingly deep, and move on an angled corse more than half way accross those bins.
 

Heika

New Member
Thanks, she did great. She is all done now.. about 6 hours from the time she started digging to when a quick glance showed she was covering them up. She is tired and dirty, but fiesty and mean as normal. When I removed her from the trash can, she promptly bit me, so I am pretty sure she is feeling alright.

This was her first clutch, 23 eggs now reside in a gladware container, and she has regained her girlish figure.. :D She is back in her cage enjoying a long misting session. I will check her over very well tomorrow, and take her to the vet on Tuesday to make sure that she is in good shape. My biggest concern has been her age. I purchased her gravid, and it is my opinion that she was a bit young to be bred. I want to make sure she doesn't need any help replacing calcium and nutrients.

Heika
 
23 eggs is a good first run. And I agree, the bite was a painful but very positive sign! :D Just remember that in the wild they are mating much earlier than many in captivity are held out until. I think shell be fine, shes in good hands with you.

Will you mate her again soon? If not I'd be willing to bet shell lay on retained sperm again anyways. You might aswell get some Spencer babies and have two half related bloodlines.
 

Heika

New Member
I try to remind myself of the fact that they are bred much earlier in the wild, but they also have the benefit of unfiltered sun, good nutrients, lots of rain. I am positive that she was well cared for prior to my purchase.. she is way too mean to have been mistreated. :D I think she has probably come through with flying colors, but better safe than sorry.

When she is receptive again, I will breed her to Spencer. He is very eager. She is from really nice bloodlines, and the male that bred her is very colorful. This should be a nice clutch of babies when it hatches out.

Heika
 
Don't wait too long. This was always my flaw and it cost my dearly. Make their health recovery very quick and get some food into her. Breed shortly after, if non receptive, try again the day after, etc.

For anyone reading along, its going to sound like I'm just maliciously using these females, but keep in mind that I would retire them early after only a few clutches and from then on they would be kept as pets on strict diets to deter egg development and fertilization by retained sperm.
 

Heika

New Member
I had actually planned to wait a bit because of her age. I want her to be able to concentrate on growing. I know that it is possible that she will develop a second clutch from retained sperm, but I am really hopeful for at least a couple month break.

Heika
 
The problem is that you will have to feed her extremely little amounts of food to stop egg production... which in turn, will also stop growth. I have never been able to stop pardalis from laying retained sperm clutches even on very limited meal diets, and I don't think Kinyonga has been sucessful either.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
How old is she?

Will is right, I can't get panther females to stop laying eggs like I can the veileds...but I do seem to be able to keep the size of the clutches low without compromising the health of the female.

I feed the females well for several days after they lay the eggs and then cut back the amount I feed them. You were likely feeding yours the proper amounts all along because her clutch size was good.

The next clutch will likely be at least partially fertile even if you don't breed her. It might even be totally fertile....and should happen in a month or two. She may even lay more than one fertile clutch before she runs out of sperm.
 

Heika

New Member
Ok. On your recommendations, I will introduce her to Spencer in a month and see if she is receptive. In the meantime, I will feed her well with calcium and vitamin dusted insects for the next two weeks and then gradually reduce the amount for the following two weeks to keep the clutch size down. Does this sound about right?

She seems to be doing well today, seeking out the spot directly beneath the UVB light. She has started eating again, and drinks as well as she always has.

Heika
 
I hate to pry, but a month may even be too late. I have had mine become gravid on retain sperm in much less time, so I can confirm its possible. I tell you, its caused a great many headaches! Haha, but really, if you intend on breeding for the babies, retained sperm clutches are the pits! Usually substantially infertile, though I have had 3-4 fertile eggs from clutches laid 8 months later- but I'm not sure how it will affect the babies health. Would be interesting to read info on that.

Recovery for me seems to take about 5-8 days till shes back to how she was before. Silkworms during the first couple days, crickets following to get her actively chasing in the cage, and all the while loong showers, up to a few hours long twice a day. Anyways, this girl sounds like a fighter, and a month maybe much longer than needed for her.

Wouldn't mind hears your "recovery practices" Lynda.
 
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Heika

New Member
This whole retained sperm thing...

If they wham-bam produce another clutch within a month, we are talking repeated clutches every couple of months. I thought a panther only produced three to four clutches a year? At the rate you are talking about, I am looking at something closer to 6, about double what I was expecting. How the hell do you slow them down then? It can't be good for them to produce one clutch right after another, and she is far from full grown. She is only 8 months old now.

And, yes, she is an absolute turd of a chameleon. She is quick and, literally, bites me every time I have to handle her. Poor girl, that has been pretty often lately because of transporting her from the cage to the trash can and then back each night, and then checking her over real well got me bit twice. But, I am happy to say that I can't feel any retained eggs, and her jaw feels nice and solid as well. I may skip the vet check.. she looks to be in good shape.

Heika
 

jbfromsc80

New Member
I have a question on the retained sperm. If you do breed the chameleon again, say to a different sire, can you gaurantee that all the babies will be from this sire.

I think that would be slightly detrimental to a breeding project. If you choose to breed your female to a different male you would not be accurate to let your potential buyers know that all the babies come from certain parents? just an inquisative question.

Approximately how long do you wait after the cham has layed the eggs to reintroduce her to a male again?

How many clutches is normal for a healthy female to have in one year?

How much do you feed your females after they have recoperated from laying eggs to get the desired amount of eggs (here being 20-25 give or take)?

I guess I should have started a new thread, but growing on this one. I am slowly reading through all the wealth of knowledge here and I am absolutely having a blast. I will hopefully be starting a breeding project with panthers in the next 2-3 years. Trying to save up about 20,000 to start!! thanks in advance guys.
 
I have a question on the retained sperm. If you do breed the chameleon again, say to a different sire, can you gaurantee that all the babies will be from this sire.

I think that would be slightly detrimental to a breeding project. If you choose to breed your female to a different male you would not be accurate to let your potential buyers know that all the babies come from certain parents? just an inquisative question.
Ideally, to have a well planned breeding project, your females would only ever mate with the same male. Breeding with different males makes no sense in the long run.
 

roo_71

New Member
Haha … congrats Heika … at least you know it wasn’t poop all caught up in her.

Interesting info on female panthers here. I wonder if they are similar to carpets. My female carpet drops a clutch every two months no matter what I do.

-roo
 

ChromaChameleons

New Member
Im on my second Fischer Multi female.. this one is exactly like the first.. they both are breeding machines. Nothing stops 'em. I've tried reduced temps, shorter daytime hours, reduced diet, reduced supplementation, visual seperation from the male... nothing works. THis little female has produced 7 clutches in about 24 months.
 
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