How do I know if she laid eggs?

[SueAndHerZoo]

I put my male and female chameleons together on October 10 and I believe there was successful mating. For a few days now the female has been digging test holes in several different places so I've stayed away but once when I got close she hissed, which she has NEVER done. I set up a camera and left the room. She went back down and was digging for hours, and before bed (lights all out) I peeked in and she was STILL down in the dirt, butt first. This morning she is up under her heat lamp and readily accepted food.

My question is: how do I know if she laid eggs or not? If she didn't yet I don't want to go disturbing her work, but if she did I'd like to retrieve the eggs. The hole that she was in last night after dark is completely filled in today. Do I go gently digging around?
Sue

 

[elizaann2]

Sounds to me like she laid her eggs. Is she all skinny and wrinkly on her belly area?

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Funny you should say that because I went to check on her a few minutes ago and she was up high on one of her branches, but I noticed a big bulge or pooch hanging from her belly area. I was like "Crap, there's still an egg in there or she has some sort of growth!" but when she stretched her body to reach some food it went away. I guess it was excess skin.

Well that's exciting, but since it will be lights off in a minute, I imagine I can wait till tomorrow? What do I do next? I have hatched box turtle and water turtle eggs but never a reptile egg. Gently work through the earth til I find some eggs? Do I have to keep them in the same position they were laid or is it OK for them to be turned? Any incubator suggestions or should I make my own?

Thanks - so exciting!
Sue

 

[elizaann2]

Funny you should say that because I went to check on her a few minutes ago and she was up high on one of her branches, but I noticed a big bulge or pooch hanging from her belly area. I was like "Crap, there's still an egg in there or she has some sort of growth!" but when she stretched her body to reach some food it went away. I guess it was excess skin.

Well that's exciting, but since it will be lights off in a minute, I imagine I can wait till tomorrow? What do I do next? I have hatched box turtle and water turtle eggs but never a reptile egg. Gently work through the earth til I find some eggs? Do I have to keep them in the same position they were laid or is it OK for them to be turned? Any incubator suggestions or should I make my own?

Thanks - so exciting!
Sue

Ok if she is a little skinny thing again you should be good.

I honestly don’t know about fertile chameleon eggs @Camiezone can you offer some support with fertile cham eggs?

 

[SteveH]

I put my male and female chameleons together on October 10 and I believe there was successful mating. For a few days now the female has been digging test holes in several different places so I've stayed away but once when I got close she hissed, which she has NEVER done. I set up a camera and left the room. She went back down and was digging for hours, and before bed (lights all out) I peeked in and she was STILL down in the dirt, butt first. This morning she is up under her heat lamp and readily accepted food.

My question is: how do I know if she laid eggs or not? If she didn't yet I don't want to go disturbing her work, but if she did I'd like to retrieve the eggs. The hole that she was in last night after dark is completely filled in today. Do I go gently digging around?
Sue

If you paired them up Oct. 10th I highly doubt that she layed already. Many species take 3-4 months. Your time frame is just over a month.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

If you paired them up Oct. 10th I highly doubt that she layed already. Many species take 3-4 months. Your time frame is just over a month.

I was going by this:

Eggs are laid 20 to 30 days after mating, or 90 to 120 days after previous oviposition in females that double clutch from a previous mating. Females that are about to lay eggs become restless and usually cease feeding for one to four days.

Or this:

Gestation. Once you have a mating you have about 30 days before eggs will be laid. During these 30 days it is your job to treat her extra special. She needs to be visually isolated from any other chameleon and needs her privacy.Sep 26, 2022

 

[Camiezone]

Hey im Camilla @ camiezone. I'm a small-time private caretaker, who's been honored a hand-ful or so time with eggs. From your description, she has laid her eggs like 90% certainty. Her behavior and digging pattern is all the signs. Once they are happy with their hole, they dig to the bottom of the laybin, some may even tunnel sideways once bottom is reached. This is one of the reasons, why the substrate and how hydrated it is, is VITAL. they must be able to retain the hole while mama is in it, if it collapses, it will drown her, if its too wet, it will destroy the eggs, and make it ALOT harder for her to dig. Some females have even needed to dig so hard, that they disconnect the shoulders, which cant be fixed. They will lay all the eggs in a pile, then will bury them completely. This is where various of ways begins.
1. Leave the eggs and take entire laybin out in about 7-9 months.
2. Take bin out now and very carefully begin the searching by removing all substrate into another container. Checking each handful for eggs.
3. When you find the eggs, you again have choices, very carefully not rolling the eggs, lay them in a container that's prepared with vermiculite with field capacity like hard squeeze only few drops. Lay eggs in rows or keep the cluster intact and move eggs staying connected.

 

[Camiezone]

Incubation is not mandatory, some just leave the laybins in a dark closet. I use incubator. Temp in the 71-78 range, as close to 100% humidity. Everyone have their own specific ways, I say it mostly depends on locale and demographics.
Good luck with them.

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Incubation is not mandatory, some just leave the laybins in a dark closet. I use incubator. Temp in the 71-78 range, as close to 100% humidity. Everyone have their own specific ways, I say it mostly depends on locale and demographics.
Good luck with them.

Thanks so much, Camilla! Couple of things:
She lives in a large cage with a bioactive bottom that is several inches deep. There are some plants planted in the substrate and there's also a laybin that I put in there when I originally set up her cage, just in case she preferred that. Apparently she preferred the bioactive substrate because that's where all her test tunnels were. I will now remove the laybin (which is apparently empty) and start carefully rooting around for eggs, but am glad to hear that if I find some they will pretty much all be in the same place.

I have vermiculite coming in today and will moisten it to the same degree that I have when I hatched turtles. But with winter coming in Connecticut I don't have a closet that will be consistently warm enough so would like feel more confident in some sort of incubator where I can better control the temperature and humidity. I used to have one of those sytrofoam ones for the turtles but it broke - may just have to quickly order another.

Or: can I put vermiculite in a small styrofoam container and attach a reptile heating pad to the bottom of it? Would I then need to poke some holes in the styrofoam cooler for air circulation? Thanks for any tips.... I am going to wait until my vermiculite arrives today before I start digging for my treasure.
Sue

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

48! Some VERY small but I will incubate all of them. I'm going to use a styrofoam cooler, place a few inches of water in the bottom, lay two aquarium heaters in the water, and elevate the plastic containers with vermiculite and eggs over the water. Do I need to poke holes for ventilation?
Sue

 

[Camiezone]

Oh wow, that was a huge clutch. How is she doing now? One of my incubators I got on ebay for under 150, it works just as well as the Zoo-med ones which are over 300. I don't know if the Styrofoam box method is good, im kinda concerned about the heaters, what temp is it inside box? I never trust the display readings by themselves, I also have a smart thermostat inside the incubator, it send me alarms if temp/hydro falls outside set range. It's awesome.
What's mama's eating schedule like? Temp inside enclosure? 48 is almost double of desired size of clutch. Are u sure it was all from one time of laying eggs? Especially since u mentioned that they are different size eggs.

 

[Camiezone]

Reg laybin. I have a hole in each end

 

[elizaann2]

Reg laybin. I have a hole in each end

Ugh...I can't wait to breed. I'm like 2 years away from being ready for it though....

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

Oh wow, that was a huge clutch. How is she doing now? One of my incubators I got on ebay for under 150, it works just as well as the Zoo-med ones which are over 300. I don't know if the Styrofoam box method is good, im kinda concerned about the heaters, what temp is it inside box? I never trust the display readings by themselves, I also have a smart thermostat inside the incubator, it send me alarms if temp/hydro falls outside set range. It's awesome.
What's mama's eating schedule like? Temp inside enclosure? 48 is almost double of desired size of clutch. Are u sure it was all from one time of laying eggs? Especially since u mentioned that they are different size eggs.

Thanks for the reply, Cam. She seems to be doing great - eating like a champ, basking, hunting for loose bugs, etc.

I will look around for an incubator to buy because I'm not sure this home-made one is going to cut it for 7 months. The temperature in there is too high if I put the cover on completely, and then goes much lower if I leave it open a crack, so I may not get consistent temperatures which I know are important. Also, there is so much condensation forming on the top that each time I touch the lid the droplets are falling onto the eggs. I have a paper towel loosely thrown over the eggs to catch the water but it still concerns me.

Hmmm, now you've got me wondering about two separate clutches. But I really don't think so - she has never dug for so long and for so deep before and all 48 are in the same "bunch", like a cluster of grapes.
Sue

 

[kinyonga]

What’s the temperature inside the container you’re incubating them in.

IMHO there should be moisture on the underside of the container’s lid…it’s normal.

I’ve never heard of a chameleon laying two different clutches at the same time.

What are the eggs laying on in the plastic container?

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

What’s the temperature inside the container you’re incubating them in.

IMHO there should be moisture on the underside of the container’s lid…it’s normal.

I’ve never heard of a chameleon laying two different clutches at the same time.

What are the eggs laying on in the plastic container?

 

[SueAndHerZoo]

The temperature averages about 80 degrees F. I've seen 78 and 82 depending on how tightly I close the lid. If I leave a little gap in the lid it goes down a few degrees and allows for air circulation so it's pretty much staying around 80 degrees now. I have a layer of parchment paper lightly laying over the eggs so not water droplets fall directly on them, and they are all on a bed of vermiculite, moistened. With the lid slightly ajar the humidity is about 93% - is that high enough?

I don't see any veins yet but I'm not seeing mold, either, so I guess that's a good sign?
Sue

 

[Camiezone]

What’s the temperature inside the container you’re incubating them in.

IMHO there should be moisture on the underside of the container’s lid…it’s normal.

I’ve never heard of a chameleon laying two different clutches at the same time.

What are the eggs laying on in the plastic container?

What I meant about 2 clutches, was that one of them would be laid about a month earlier than the other. Hence the size differences of the eggs.

 

[kinyonga]

Camiezone said…”Leave the eggs and take entire laybin out in about 7-9 months”…I would not recommend that method. It’s too hard to control the moisture level of the substrate to give the eggs what they need.

Camiezone said…”Take bin out now and very carefully begin the searching by removing all substrate into another container. Checking each handful for eggs”…I use a soup spoon and scrape thin layers of the substrate off carefully until I reach the eggs.

Camiezone said…”When you find the eggs, you again have choices, very carefully not rolling the eggs, lay them in a container that's prepared with vermiculite with field capacity like hard squeeze only few drops. Lay eggs in rows or keep the cluster intact and move eggs staying connected”…keeping the eggs in a cluster is less likely to end with all the eggs hatching successfully IMHO. I know that’s the natural way..to remain in a clump…but they’re also completely covered, in a site the female chose. If incubated in rows on the vermiculite, they each hatch more individually and IMHO, it gives each the chance to be the best it can that way.