Dave Weldon Vit A ?

[BIGGUN]

Hi Dave,

I was reading the thread about the black tail and saw your post on Vit A.
I didn't want to hijack the thread but did want to find out what your final decision on dosing Vit A was and with what results?

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Kevin,

I finally decided that a chameleon with a symptom of a shortage of vitamin A could get the book's dosage of: Vitamin A (liquid?) @ 2000 IU per 30 grams body weight once a week for 2 weeks. So a typical 120 gram adult could get the entire contents of an 8000 IU vitamin A gelcap (drawn out with a syringe) and again in a couple of weeks. At that point I think the idea is that his system is "tanked-up." After that, it's been proposed that a tiny droplet of vit A every week(?) or so would keep things in shape. I injected the dose into a large silkworm and quickly hand-fed it to the chameleon.

 

[nightcrawler]

i think i read somewhere that fish oil has vit A in it, does anyone know?

 

[lbesok]

i think i read somewhere that fish oil has vit A in it, does anyone know?

You are correct, fish oil does have vit. A. I use Cod Liver oil as a sort of laxative.
IMO the safest bet is gutload with a high quality fish flake or get pre-formed Vitamin A caps (derived from RETINYL PALMITATE), so that the chameleon for sure can convert.
From what I understand it is very easy to overdose with A, and no "safe" dosages have yet to be determined. From our experiences with a 150-170g animal we have always given a small drop from an 10,000IU cap no more than 5-7 times a week upon diagnosis, and never had any problems seeing results. In fact occasionally gout was observed and believed to be positively correlated with the increase of vit. A We gradually backed it down to around every other day, every other week, and then as needed. I would love to see some more research done to better dose our chameleons, who are so frequently deprived of this essential vitamin.

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

This is really useful information and I love there kind of threads! Thanks everyone.

 

[nightcrawler]

You are correct, fish oil does have vit. A, but it is controversial if the chameleons body is actually able to use fish oil form. I use Cod Liver oil as a sort of laxative.
IMO the safest bet is gutload with a high quality fish flake or get Vitamin A caps derived from RETINYL PALMITATE, so that the chameleon for sure can convert.
From what I understand it is very easy to overdose with A, and no "safe" dosages have yet to be determined. From our experiences with a 150-170g animal we have always given a small drop from an 10,000IU cap no more than 5-7 times a week upon diagnosis, and never had any problems seeing results. In fact occasionally gout was observed and believed to be positively correlated with the increase of vit. A We gradually backed it down to around every other day, every other week, and then as needed. I would love to see some more research done to better dose our chameleons, who are so frequently deprived of this essential vitamin.

so i should just forget the fishoil because we dont know for sure if it is good
or not. i think im going to go out and get some vit A tablets, it might make
it easier.

my cham has been going threw the worst shed. he is partly shedding
all over and its taking over a week to do. i used to give a small amount
of fishoil on his feeders every other week.

does anyone think because VitA is related to skin, and ive been using fish oil
that this could be why his shed is taking so long?

i do feed his crickets and supers with carrots, so they get some vit A.
they are always in there for them to eat.
and i notice that they eat them carrots up.
i figured sence i was suppling carrots, that i only had to give the fishoil
twice a month.

ill get vit A tablets and note if their is a change in anything.

 

[JoshCrane1]

so juveniles and chams under 1 year need a drop of pre-formed vitamin A from a gel-cap how often? and adults over 1 year?

 

[lbesok]

Vitamin A

Vitamin A that comes from animals, PREformed is easily absorbed by the chameleon, this type is absorbed in the form of Retinyl Palmitate. Vitamin A that comes from pants, PROformed, means that it is derived from plants and you body actually converts it into vitamin A, which is controversial.
Carrots would be questionably beneficial, and I've heard mixed things about them. Kind of makes me wonder about the calcium absorption between herbivorous and carnivorous feeders too, which has been brought up before in regards to older animals.
Here is a link about Vitamin A: http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamina.asp

 

[kinyonga]

Ibesok said..."it is controversial if the chameleons body is actually able to use pro-formed vit. A derived fish oil form." PrEformed vitamin A is obtained from fish oil.

"Vitamin A occurs in nature in two forms: preformed vitamin A and provitamin A, or carotene. Sources of vitamin A can be divided into two groups: one is animal source, and the other is vegetable source."

Note...animal sources are prEformed.

" Vitamin A comes from animal sources, such as eggs, meat, milk, cheese, cream, liver, kidney, cod and halibut fish oil."
"Preformed vitamin A is found only in animal products, one of the richest sources being fish-liver oil".

The whole article is worth reading to get a better understanding of vitamin A...
http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/vitamin-A-sources.php

nightcrawler said..."does anyone think because VitA is related to skin, and ive been using fish oil that this could be why his shed is taking so long?"

Lack of vitamin A can result in difficulty shedding.
http://www.all-creatures.com/site/view/79378_Chameleons.pml;jsessionid=cjxgv1l7s6n

Hope this helps!

 

[nightcrawler]

PrEformed vitamin A is obtained from fish oil.

so with my fish oil he is getting PREformed Vit A so i dont need to change it
maybe just make it a dose every week?