Veiled Chameleon keeping one eye open during sleep

[LizardLurkin]

I observed something strange about little Spooble the past couple of nights. It seems he sleeps with one eye open. I can't really find much discussion of this behavior anywhere, and I figure the people here have probably seen most things and may have some insight.

The husbandry is much that same as it was on my previous thread.
Some other notes:
-His appetite is healthy, I have been trying to build trust with a single wax worm a day before cup feeding him his gutloaded bugs.
-Yesterday, he did miss the wax worm in the palm of my hand once, but I imagine everyone makes mistakes.
-Near the end of the day, he did hold this eye closed. I'm unsure if he was cleaning it (he was doing blink-like motions with it while it was closed.) I'll be keeping an eye on that behavior.
-I've set my mistking to go for 4-5 minutes both sessions in case he needs extra humidity to clean out his little peeper.
Oh, and it's the same eye that had the keratin plug in it.
I'm just like, Oh poor Spooble with your weird little eye challenges.

His poop is the same; healthy looking... He uses the bathroom maybe every other day (or I'm just awful at finding it some days.)

But I'm sort of going on, now! I'd be glad to hear some thoughts, if this is a worrisome behavior or a weird quirk. I worry a little if he may be losing sight in that eye.

 

[MissSkittles]

Poor sweetie. I have no idea why he would be doing that. Are there any lights on at night? Even like a nightlight? I can’t tell if it’s just the pic or not, but that eye does look a little off to me. Refresh my memory - how did the plug come out of his eye? Did the vet remove it? If so, how? Was he on antibiotic eye drops? Maybe @kinyonga has some experience or knowledge about this.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Poor sweetie. I have no idea why he would be doing that. Are there any lights on at night? Even like a nightlight? I can’t tell if it’s just the pic or not, but that eye does look a little off to me. Refresh my memory - how did the plug come out of his eye? Did the vet remove it? If so, how? Was he on antibiotic eye drops? Maybe @kinyonga has some experience or knowledge about this.

I applied neomycin ointment to his left eye twice every day for two weeks. The vet flushed the plug out (he wasn't sedated or anything for the process.)
It's completely dark at night in the room he's in, aside from when I check up on him with my phone's flashlight.

He is still holding that eye closed today, too. I will note, this eye usually appeared a bit puffier, but I assumed (hoped) it was the loose saggy skin from the plug.

 

[kinyonga]

When did he have the plug removed.

 

[LizardLurkin]

I believe it was March 27 or 28.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Got a new photo. He was in the middle of eating, so he actually had the eye open. It looks a lot like it did before. I have a vet appointment scheduled for tomorrow, wondering if there's any suggestions of what I can bring up as a possible cause for her to consider. My thoughts are "maybe it was an abscess and flushing out what was there was only a temporary solution?"

 

[LizardLurkin]

I applied neomycin ointment to his left eye twice every day for two weeks. The vet flushed the plug out (he wasn't sedated or anything for the process.)
It's completely dark at night in the room he's in, aside from when I check up on him with my phone's flashlight.

He is still holding that eye closed today, too. I will note, this eye usually appeared a bit puffier, but I assumed (hoped) it was the loose saggy skin from the plug.

Okay, so all lights in the room are off at 8pm, however, as I'm in Alaska, the sun doesn't completely set currently until 12am. The sky is dark blue. This is just how it is in the spring and summer months. Puffyness and eye closedness aside, it's probably not a bad idea to look for something I can block out the light from the room's window during the night hours. Maybe it would at least encourage him to sleep with both eyes closed While the vet helps me figure out the rest.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Apologies for replying to my own thread so often, I just figure maybe someday someone else observes the same issues and maybe I'll say something enlightening:
The vet flushed his eye again today. She noted that his left eye has extra skin folds, and that the little eyehole seems smaller on that side (I'm paraphrasing) and that this might make him predisposed to these buildups because there's more room for stuff to get stuck but not a lot of room for it to get flushed out. She recommended applying a warm compress to his eye every three days.
I brought up vitamin A deficiency as I know that is often the root of eye problems, and I told her that Spooble's only had two doses of reptivite as he's been in my care a little over a month.
To this, she also suggested giving him the multivitamin once every week for a while.
I am a little anxious because every suggestion online is to use the multivitamin twice a month, but I do wonder if he's in Vitamin Debt or something. I'd be happy to hear some extra thoughts!

She again mentioned that it may be a deformity from previous vitamin deficiencies, but we're both hoping that, as he grows, he fills out those eye folds a little better and the issue with his eye clears up.
He has a good appetite, his mouth looks great, bones and stomach felt good/normal. All the typical check-up things seem well.

 

[GrannyK]

I have no advice but I am following (lurking) lol. If nothing you will have a time line of events and possibly help others by keeping this thread updated. Sorry you are going through this with your little guy.

 

[LizardLurkin]

I appreciate the input, I'll keep this thread updated and see if we can all learn something. I'll try to be concise!
Even if he's having a lot of trouble, I really enjoy getting to know the little guy and want to do what I can to get him over the hurdle. He's such a timid little guy, and the worst thing about it all is that I have to annoy him in my hopes to help him out

 

[LizardLurkin]

An update:
Spooble appears to have this crusty "film" over his eye. It appears a little foggy and dull in color. I believe what I'm seeing at night, this "eye opened" thing, is this eye crust, and maybe it makes it difficult to close it all the way. It seems he definitely has an issue with vitamin A deficiency, reading around online.
Unfortunately, vitamin A is still one of those gray areas in chameleon care, and that trying to correct it can also lead to problems. I'm uncertain how to go about tackling the issue.

This is off topic but has also been worrying me; what numbers should I be getting at the basking branch from my UV readings? I get around 1.5-2.0 using my solarmeter 6.5.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Another update:
On Saturday, I gave him another supplementation of reptivite with his meals and, it's probably placebo, but the following two days, his eye was functioning again! It's still puffy and saggy, but I'm hoping things keep trending upwards. I also made a big new batch of gutload cubes with more variety consisting of collard greens, carrots, squash, banana, and 1/4 teaspoon of bee pollen that I hope is more vitamin rich.
Here's a couple of photos from yesterday and today, respectively.
He is still keeping that eye open during sleep. I check every night. I'm wondering if maybe it's an odd quirk he's developed or if that too will stop once his eye is more normal.

 

[Carlton]

A couple of thoughts and a question OP:

It could be that past eye trouble has caused some tissue swelling and/or scarring that interferes with the ability to shut that eyelid completely. I'd worry less about the eye staying partially open at night and more about keeping the eye itself healthy. Very, very cautious about giving too much vit A just to troubleshoot a potential eye problem. Vit A toxicity can be cumulative and create system-wide trouble. The swelling will probably lessen to some degree with time. I think we forget how much longer it takes for reptiles to heal and we expect things to resolve too quickly. The scarring/damage may or may not improve. FWIW, I had a pet shop rescue cham (obvious wildcaught import) with a somewhat damaged eye. It was an old injury that affected the lid and the pupil. The eyelid didn't close completely either, even while asleep. I suspected the cham didn't have much functional vision in that eye. It never improved, but the cham itself behaved pretty much normally (including sleeping) and could shoot food quite well anyway. He had learned to compensate.

As for AK's long summer days, you can provide more darkness for him by giving him secluded foliage retreats in the cage and by covering it to provide more of a regular day/night schedule.

Where are you in AK? I'm now in Homer but have lived in various areas of AK for almost 30 years. In that time, I've kept a cham and several different aviary birds. They are slaves to light too. Their 8'x4'x8' aviary has timer controlled, full spectrum lighting and a radiant heat panel in the top to provide more daylight exposure and a place to bask during winter, and blackout curtains to help them get enough sleep in summer. Ran a cable around the top of the frame and hung blackout/camouflage T shirt fabric from smaller diameter shower curtain rings on the cable. I try to create a more regular daylight schedule for them that way. I also have a lot of fake silk foliage hanging from the top of the aviary to provide sheltered roosting spots for the birds. In many ways, my aviary is a lot like a cham's cage, just without the water! Something seems to be working OK. None of my birds have ever been sick. They died of what was most likely old age.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Hello Carlton! Sorry if my response ends up a little long.

So, yeah. I'm definitely wary about the vitamin A, because I know it's sort of nebulous and hard to really measure how much is okay and when it's getting to be too much. I was really concerned for him when he kept the eye closed and then, the next day, it started to crust over. I've been searching around frantically for any way I can help alleviate his problem. I mentioned this in my last thread but, when I got him, he already had puffiness in the corner of his eye. A keratin plug or something of the sort was flushed out a couple weeks after bringing him home, and his little eye looked so nice and proper for a while! But then almost a month later, his eye issue came back with a vengeance, and it made me anxious about all sorts of things; if it's some deeper infection, if he's losing vision, if I'm doing something incredibly wrong... Things of the like. In all the research I did before bringing home my first cham, I also made myself very aware of all the common health issues. Yet, this eye thing I never saw before, so I'm just confused at what to do.
But...He seems healthy otherwise. Very full of personality, quick to retreat whenever I open the enclosure for any reason, very good appetite.

I will do the multivitamin as typically recommended because it makes me very anxious to imagine poisoning him unintentionally.
On that note, he really, really dislikes the warm compresses and I dislike the idea of setting back the trust formed by actively pressing something against his eyeball for an amount of time...I currently have both of his misting sessions set 30 minutes after waking up, and 30 minutes before bed, for 4 mins and 30 seconds each in hopes that he can use that moisture in his waking time to try and clean debris out. I'm hoping that will suffice for now as I continue to monitor his eye.
It is relieving to hear that you, too, had a cham that slept similar to my little guy. I wonder if your cham, ontop of not closing it properly, also never fully opened that eye either? For Spooble, his left eye appears more squinty than the right.
Doodled this because I don't wanna bother him with my presence!

BTW, your aviary looks so cool. I had never seen anything like it, but the foliage at the top like that just makes sense. What a neat little enclosure!
I live in the kenai peninsula, I don't want to get too specific publicly but yeah. Not too far north where the day/night cycle gets really weird, but you know. In summer, it'll be dark blue in the ams, and in the winter, the sun will set at 3:30pm.
I like my current system where his lights will go off and then, 30 minutes after that, i'll close the curtains...Trying to simulate a more gradual descent into darkness, buuut obviously that's not going to work the same once the day/night cycle shifts.
Yeah I'll look into creating a little curtain system if I can work out the placement.

 

[kinyonga]

Regarding the warm compresses…it’s thought that what might feel warm to us may feel hot too chameleons…so be cautious about compresses being too warm.

 

[ehdee6]

I've visited Alaska and upper Canada quite a few times... The daylight/dark contrast is real! You can walk outside at 3am in the summer and think it was 6 or 7 am in most places in the summer. Then it just gets brighter all over again!

Despite little Spooble's eye, at least he's shedding and looking healthy otherwise. Carlton is totally right about injuries and how they may affect an individual. Animals aren't much different from humans, injuries have to be nursed and healed... And might even get infected years later. I always think about it as a bad ear piercing I got when I was 7; it never healed right, even after I took it out. 30 years later it still gets gross no matter how many times I go to the doctor. I'm still healthy otherwise lol! Just keep giving the little one the care and love you're giving him and he'll live a good life.

 

[LizardLurkin]

@kinyonga I've been using water that is just a little warmer than room temperature because I know reptiles feel heat differently. Maybe I'll go a tad cooler just to be on the safe side.
I'm also kind of thinking how I can reduce his stress during the whole ordeal, because nabbing him from his enclosure is no fun for him at all. I've brainstormed something like this so he doesn't have to leave his comfort zone.

@ehdee6 That's true. I'll hope it's something like that, though I'm very sorry about your ear. I suppose I should be glad I was way too chicken to get a piercing when I was little too
I'll give little Spooble all the care and love he needs no matter the sass haha I do hope the eye clears up but the vet did posit that it may be a former injury that just always causes him issues, so I'm also prepared to deal with that.