Damaged Horn on Quad
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jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
GCash
Avid Member
No. The furthest most tip of a horn is developed at a young age and will not regrow. If he still has some growing to do you MAY see a basal segment form with future sheds, but not the tip. Age would be nothing more than a guess with imports. Weight can vary a good bit with WCs. Your best bet for a good estimate is to compare his overall size to the average max size of other males. Something that's easier said than done these days. Good luck!
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks. He definitely has some growing to do. He is smaller than the adult males that came in that same shipment. He was 42g the last time I weighed him a few days ago. He started at 36g and was 40g in a couple of days which I attributed to rehydration.
I have no understanding of their growth rate. At what age do they stop growing? I asked the store owner/importer how old he thought my chameleon was and he thought over a year and under two years. Does that sound reasonable? Can you tell the age by the growth of his horns?
Thanks for any insight into this fascinating species.
bobcochran
Chameleon Enthusiast
quad age
I have a captive bred male quad, he's about 15 months now with all four horns.
He weighs ~82 g. He started growing the second pair of horns around 8-9months old.
I also got one of the wild imported males in Dec.. He's smaller than yours, weighing about 15g. He rubbed off or broke both first horns before or during importation. He hasn't started growing the second pair yet. I'm thinking he
will grow the second pair behind where the first pair should be.
The first picture is the captive bred male @ ~12months old. The second pic is the wild caught male, Bill named him Nubby, the name stuck.
Maybe this helps you guess how old yours is.
I have a captive bred male quad, he's about 15 months now with all four horns.
He weighs ~82 g. He started growing the second pair of horns around 8-9months old.
I also got one of the wild imported males in Dec.. He's smaller than yours, weighing about 15g. He rubbed off or broke both first horns before or during importation. He hasn't started growing the second pair yet. I'm thinking he
will grow the second pair behind where the first pair should be.
The first picture is the captive bred male @ ~12months old. The second pic is the wild caught male, Bill named him Nubby, the name stuck.
Maybe this helps you guess how old yours is.
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jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
When your captive bred started growing his second pair of horns around 8/9 months old, did they look like the nub mine has in the second picture?
What are those white patches on your wild caught's back? Mine has them as well but I don't see them on photos of captive breds. The others I've seen from that shipment also have them. It almost looks like dried skin. I thought it was a shed starting but he hasn't shed anything and I'm misting like crazy.
ponders
Chameleon Enthusiast
Are you talking about the three white patches down the WC back? If so they are individual markings that each one is different. Mine tend to have a swish or 1/2 circle. You can see some here. They get white or blue as they get older.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/t-quadricornis-male-babies-available-135336/
bobcochran
Chameleon Enthusiast
No, they started protruding more. What you're calling a nub looks more like a piece of shed skin that hasn't come off yet. I think you have a few more months before the second pair start showing.
The light colored patches on the back are normal and varies from animal to animal. On some it turns bluer the older they get, on my little import they're already quite blue. I have seen the blue on captive bred males too. Here's a pic of an adult male with some nice blue. Sorry about the focus. OOPS I already uploaded that pic. It's on the thread "pretty boy quadricornis" page 4.
The light colored patches on the back are normal and varies from animal to animal. On some it turns bluer the older they get, on my little import they're already quite blue. I have seen the blue on captive bred males too. Here's a pic of an adult male with some nice blue. Sorry about the focus. OOPS I already uploaded that pic. It's on the thread "pretty boy quadricornis" page 4.
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jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, I guess that's what I'm talking about. I've pretty much left him alone and I have never seen the species before, so I don't know what "normal" is.
How much did Nero weigh in the photo when he was 11 months old? Mine's second set of horns are nowhere near as developed as Nero's at 11 months. The one horn that isn't damaged looks more like a nub with a great big thick scale over it than a horn.
I'm trying to get a guesstimate on his age. Does the horn development happen at pretty reliable ages, much as a puppies first teeth shed at reliable ages regardless of nutrition?
ponders
Chameleon Enthusiast
You have to understand that comparing CBB to WC probably isn't very accurate, since he never went hungry and had supplements his whole life. I'd have to look back at pictures to see about the horn development and weight. He is the only male I raised up from an egg. I usually find homes for them at 3months.
I'll get back to you with more info.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I understand that. I'm wondering if horn development is a function of age. A puppy will shed their baby teeth at the same age and in the same sequence regardless of the breed, size or nutrition level. I wonder if the horn development is the same, dependent on age rather than nutrition. I'm trying to get a guesstimate of my guy's age--and learn about the species, too.
ponders
Chameleon Enthusiast
Looks like he started to get the first set of horns at 4months and the second set started coming in at 10 months. At 10 months his blues started to show as well and he weighed 56g. He weighed 79g at 14 months.
My other male stopped growing at 18 months. He was very shy and I didn't take lots of pictures of him. He weighs 78g. There is a thread that shows him in all his glory. https://www.chameleonforums.com/quad-love-air-136582/
The WC that I got only has one set of small horns, but has lots of colors and only weighs 34g. So maybe mine is 8 months old?
My other male stopped growing at 18 months. He was very shy and I didn't take lots of pictures of him. He weighs 78g. There is a thread that shows him in all his glory. https://www.chameleonforums.com/quad-love-air-136582/
The WC that I got only has one set of small horns, but has lots of colors and only weighs 34g. So maybe mine is 8 months old?
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you.
Mine might have the beginings of his second set of horns. He weighs 42 grams, so I take him to be under a year. Does that sound about right?
How will I ever know whether a female I might try to get is a T. q. quadricornis or a gracilior?
ponders
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, that sounds right.
The gracilior have red nails, from what I've seen. Otherwise the females look quite similar.
Chris Anderson has a great thread about quads if you haven't seen it. I think both are represented in there.
The gracilior have red nails, from what I've seen. Otherwise the females look quite similar.
Chris Anderson has a great thread about quads if you haven't seen it. I think both are represented in there.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm just learning how to search Chameleon Forums. I've looked at a few of Chris Anderson's photos and read some of his posts on the trips he made to Cameroon. I thought he wrote that in one particular geographic area the graciliors had red nails, and that other areas the graciliors had horn colored nails. I just scanned the paper quickly.
He talked about lung differences but never explained what they were. I may get in touch with him to try to find the papers written on the species.
I'm toying with the idea of trying to breed them. I don't want to breed a T. q. quadricornic to a T. q. gracilior. The pet market won't care, but it makes a huge difference if one is trying to keep a genetic pool of quads outside of Cameroon. I don't want to help create hybrids.
Does anyone know if there has been any genetic testing to differentiate the two sub species? I wonder if the two sub species are really just local variations/adaptations of one.
Thanks for any insight into the species.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Actually, the red nails is not a differentiating characteristic between T. q. quadricornis and T. q. gracilior. I've had T. q. quadricornis with red nails.
Here is the thread that ponders was talking about: https://www.chameleonforums.com/dis...ros-quadricornis-subspecies-52979/index2.html
Chase
Here is the thread that ponders was talking about: https://www.chameleonforums.com/dis...ros-quadricornis-subspecies-52979/index2.html
Chase
