coccidia help!

[drcrossfire]

thanks for the number, if my vet doesnt hvae it, ill have them call them.

and she stated that there is no dierrhea and he is heating and drinking just fine.
other than the chronic prolapsing, there does nto appear to be any issues. (though that is a big one)

The Issue I would worry about is the prolapsing causing a weakened immune system and allowing it to take over. That's what I meant, I wasn't clear. Typing on my phone makes me forget to elaborate sometimes!

 

[camimom]

The Issue I would worry about is the prolapsing causing a weakened immune system and allowing it to take over. That's what I meant, I wasn't clear. Typing on my phone makes me forget to elaborate sometimes!

well everytime he prolapses she puts ky on it and helps him put it back in.

it just seems weird that coccidia would cause a prolapse problem, when hes eating and drinking, behaving normally, and has no dierrhea.

 

[drcrossfire]

well everytime he prolapses she puts ky on it and helps him put it back in.

it just seems weird that coccidia would cause a prolapse problem, when hes eating and drinking, behaving normally, and has no dierrhea.

I don't see why it would cause it either... I would ask for more information. Might have just been a stab in the dark by the vet if he didn't know what was causing the prolapsing? Though I guess... My stab in the dark.... Coccidia may cause an inflammation of the intestinal wall and maybe cause the prolapsing?

 

[camimom]

I don't see why it would cause it either... I would ask for more information. Might have just been a stab in the dark by the vet if he didn't know what was causing the prolapsing? Though I guess... My stab in the dark.... Coccidia may cause an inflammation of the intestinal wall and maybe cause the prolapsing?

the vet she saw was dumb.
wanted to prescibe albon. said getting ponazuril would take 2 weeks.

vet said he was inundated with coccidia, but theres no runny stools, no dehydration, no behavioral changes.....

and the vet really didnt seem to know a whole hell of alot.

heres a picture of the prolapse, does it look swollen to you?

View attachment 50030

 

[kinyonga]

When a chameleon has a prolapse that keeps popping out the vet should do a purse sting suture which should allow the chameleon to poop still but be enough to keep the prolapse in.

 

[camimom]

When a chameleon has a prolapse that keeps popping out the vet should do a purse sting suture which should allow the chameleon to poop still but be enough to keep the prolapse in.

her vet wouldnt do it.
she suggested it.
the vet said shed never done it and didnt want to risk doing more damage.

though she did squeeze out the hemepene to look at it, then put it back in.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Double post.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Coccidia does not have to cause diarrhea. It has been linked to a possible cause of prolapse. And since ponazuril is not a common small animal drug takin some time to get it is not that unreasonable.

 

[camimom]

Coccidia does not have to cause diarrhea. And since ponazuril is not a common small animal drug takin some time to get it is not that unreasonable.

if its not causing dierhhea yet, and overall the cham is normal, will albon hurt it?

and if its not dierrhea, does that mean its not as bad?

could it still cause the prolapse problem?

if its not coccidia, and the vet got it wrong, and we use the albon, would that hurt him even more than if he does have coccidia?

 

[drcrossfire]

I have been looking for more information about this-- ferret-- could you source this, i'd like to read up. Thx

I'm just going off my past experience with coccidia- so please dont use me as 100% fact. Just additional information. though, most things ive read say it causes loose bowels; weight loss; and dehydration- though as she said, it can present itself in other ways.

 

[drcrossfire]

if its not causing dierhhea yet, and overall the cham is normal, will albon hurt it?

and if its not dierrhea, does that mean its not as bad?

could it still cause the prolapse problem?

if its not coccidia, and the vet got it wrong, and we use the albon, would that hurt him even more than if he does have coccidia?

albon can do damage to the kidneys-- so it can dangerous if the animal is dehydrated; be careful not to overdose. Many times vets will do a renal functionality test prior to issuing albon. (from Understanding Reptile Parasites)

 

[camimom]

albon can do damage to the kidneys-- so it can dangerous if the animal is dehydrated; be careful not to overdose. Many times vets will do a renal functionality test prior to issuing albon. (from Understanding Reptile Parasites)

i know the vet didnt do one.

so no albon....

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

1. if its not causing dierhhea yet, and overall the cham is normal, will albon hurt it?

2. and if its not dierrhea, does that mean its not as bad?

3. could it still cause the prolapse problem?

4. if its not coccidia, and the vet got it wrong, and we use the albon, would that hurt him even more than if he does have coccidia?

1. This forum is the only place I've really seen a lot of experience with albon in chameleons. There's not much opinion about it elsewhere as being so bad, but given the negative experiences that some of our esteemed members have had with it I lean away from it. Since albon can cause loss of appetite, lethargy and be hard on the kidneys (according to those who have used it) I would not be eager to give it 'just in case'. I'd rather go with 'better safe than sorry'.

2. Let me get back to you on that one...I seem to remember reading there are harmful species and nonharmful species of coccidia, that you can't really differentiate on a fecal, so as long as they appear healthy it may not warrant treatment. But let me find it again before I say that with any confidence.

3. Possibly

4. see question 1

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

From Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery (the textbook authority on reptile med)

Not all infections with coccidians cause disease, and sometimes this condition is correctly called coccidiasis (infection with coccidians, but not disease). This is opposed to coccidiosis, in which the parasite causes disease.
An example of coccidiasis is seen in the Bearded Dragons. It is not uncommon to find coccidia in clinically healthy Bearded Dragons on routine fecal examinations. Many healthy individuals shed large numbers of Isospora amphiboluri oocysts. These animals are infected, not diseased. There is no reason to treat these animals.
In many cases in which coccidian oocysts are seen in the feces, whether disease or simply infection exists is unknown.

If the cham appears totally normal and does not have health problems you may not need to treat it. It sounds like chronic prolapse is of concern though. And if you are thinking of adopting this cham and bringing it into the same facility as the rest of your collection, it would be my advice to treat it. Lack of disease in one animal does not necessarily mean it will be innocuous to the rest. If one of your chams gets infected (only a matter of time since this is so contagious) it may cause disease in them due to different immune status.

I would find a vet comfortable with doing the suture for the prolapse. You don't want this to keep occurring. At least that vet was honest about it! Some will just blindly do it and end up causing more harm than good since they don't know what they're doing. I'd rather they tell me to find someone else with more experience.

 

[drcrossfire]

^I really want that book

And I agree with Ferret

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Also, from Understanding Reptile Parasites:

Symptoms vary from animals that are feeding but have mild diarrhea to reptiles afflicted with severe diarrhea, anorexia, debilitation, and eventual death. The symptoms tend to correlate with to parasite number and chronicity. The typical veiled chameleon and leopard gecko with coccidia tend to have mild symptoms, such as diminished appetite and weight loss, unless accompanied by other concurrent disease or stress.

 

[drcrossfire]

But the question is, what constitutes "mild" ....

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

But the question is, what constitutes "mild" ....

..."mild symptoms, such as diminished appetite and weight loss..."

Of course symptoms can vary with individual animals.

 

[camimom]

From Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery (the textbook authority on reptile med)



If the cham appears totally normal and does not have health problems you may not need to treat it. It sounds like chronic prolapse is of concern though. And if you are thinking of adopting this cham and bringing it into the same facility as the rest of your collection, it would be my advice to treat it. Lack of disease in one animal does not necessarily mean it will be innocuous to the rest. If one of your chams gets infected (only a matter of time since this is so contagious) it may cause disease in them due to different immune status.

I would find a vet comfortable with doing the suture for the prolapse. You don't want this to keep occurring. At least that vet was honest about it! Some will just blindly do it and end up causing more harm than good since they don't know what they're doing. I'd rather they tell me to find someone else with more experience.

as far as danibug can tell, he appears normal, cept for the chronic prolapsing. which is of course a concern.
while i do plan to adopt him, i plan on quarentining him to a place that only he will be. no contact with the others, and using gloves when interacting with him,
fortnatlly, i just spoke to my vet, and she can and has done the purse stitch thing, so that is good. and i agree that the other vet shouldnt have done the stitch because she wasnt comfortable.

i am hoping that my new vet will prescribe ponazuril and not albon.

i called one vet, who when i said i didnt want to use albon because of all the issues, the receptionist mad eit sound like i just said i want to treat my cham with purple paint! they use albon all the time and never have problems.


but on a 6 month old cham im not willing to risk it. and my vet that i will be taking him to, does not like albon, because of the same issues already described here.

so danibug will be putting a boat tone of ky on a piece of gauze, wrapping his vent up tight, but not too tight, so he can make it through the shipping without prolapsing.
so he should be here tuesday morning, and hell be off to the vet tuesday evening.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Glad he will be getting the help he needs! Poor little thing. I'm glad my insides don't randomly pop out....