Lizardlover
New Member
I think thats quite cruel, if you cant take care of a WHOLE clutch dont have one, its a part of being responsible.
EDIT: just another opinion
Cleas 1st fertile breeding!
- Thread starter CleaTheChameleon
- Start date
I think thats quite cruel, if you cant take care of a WHOLE clutch dont have one, its a part of being responsible.
EDIT: just another opinion
pssh
Avid Member
It's too late to stop it, so the best thing he could do, if he does change his mind, is to pop a few. For whatever reason, if he couldn't afford all of them, it'd be better than to let them starve or die off after they hatch. This is all hypothetical however, and I hope he wont have to do it, but the economy is hurting a lot of people these days and you never know.
Lizardlover
New Member
Oh I agree, I wasnt relating it to his situation, but yes it would be better to do that than to let them suffer.
BocaJan
New Member
OK guys. Clea's Hubby for the day is mine and I only live about 1 1/2 mile from him. If he needs help or needs to farm out some of the babies I am here to give assistance. I think he will do well. His father is most helpful and so am I. Couldn't have a more involved support group. There is no way I would let him pop any of the eggs.
Hi Danny ~~~waves~~~
Hi Danny ~~~waves~~~
beeze
Avid Member
It takes 30 days to lay the eggs after mating and then 9 months to hatch. So egg should hatch about Aug. just in time for you to start back to school. Babies have to be misted more often that adults and have to eat two to three times a day. You need to also save for possibly vet bills, too. Lots can go wrong with babies.
CleaTheChameleon
New Member
Thanks for the info. Naomi thank you to having faith. I have a lot of people to help me out. I won't let you guys down. I promise
Lizardlover
New Member
Hello Naomi
Stefan, my concerns about Clea's health still remain and while some people may call me "rude" or a "jerk" for caring its just that I have a passion for these creatures and I want whats best for all of them. (which is impossible but i try to "help" when i can).
again IN MY OPINION I wouldnt have done it so early, or jumped right into it, I would have waited,and would have been a bit more prepared but if other people are going to do the work than why not just jump into it, and yes, you will be in school by the time they hatch so there goes your theory. Just hope people will be there to spray 4x and feed 2x a day for you.
Charlie Moore
New Member
Good luck and nice pics!
Pure
New Member
Help from a friend
Stephan, I would have liked to see you wait until next season, but that is besides the point. I have in my head, a baby cage rack system to build for myself, when it's needed for my own purposes. You on the otherhand will need something like this before I will. As i have a fully functional shop, and the time. I will volenteer to build you one first. Free labor, all I ask is for you or your dad to remburse the expences of the supplies. Lets wait until we know how many eggs she has first, but after that , I will put some drawngs on paper. Transporting it will be a snap as the levels will be stackable. Just guessing but the whole thing shouldn't cost more than 200 give or take to build. Let me know if this appeals to you and your dad. I'm more than happy to help.
Stephan, I would have liked to see you wait until next season, but that is besides the point. I have in my head, a baby cage rack system to build for myself, when it's needed for my own purposes. You on the otherhand will need something like this before I will. As i have a fully functional shop, and the time. I will volenteer to build you one first. Free labor, all I ask is for you or your dad to remburse the expences of the supplies. Lets wait until we know how many eggs she has first, but after that , I will put some drawngs on paper. Transporting it will be a snap as the levels will be stackable. Just guessing but the whole thing shouldn't cost more than 200 give or take to build. Let me know if this appeals to you and your dad. I'm more than happy to help.
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CleaTheChameleon
New Member
Alright will keep in touch
ChrisnLisa
New Member
Stefan-
None of us are here to make you feel bad, but by announcing this publicly, you need to be open to hearing both good and bad criticism. Good luck to you and Clea. I am glad that Naomi has offered to help, because I am sure you will need it. Keep in mind that the larger the female, the more likely she is to have a larger clutch. I know that you have been cutting down her food intake, hopefully this will help.
I agree you may have jumped into this too soon. Keep in mind I am not trying to criticize you, I just believe you have NO IDEA the amount of work and MONEY it is going to take to raise these babies. Veileds have larger clutches, higher hatch rate, and grow much quicker (=more food) than panthers. While there may be people giving you support, who is going to be dishing out the money to house and feed these neonates? I have about 35 babies right now give or take and they are going through 1000+ crickets a week. Unless you are raising your own feeders that adds up real quick. 1000+ crickets plus shipping comes to about $35 a week, at the minimum. This does not include the cost of enclosures, lights, light fixtures, plants, etc, not to mention the increase in the electric bill.
If I were you, I would let your dad read the thread that Julirs wrote on "The cost of raising 69 veileds" if you have not already. Being 12 or 13?, I assume you do not have a job. In the end it will become your dads expense, and my guess is that he has no idea how much money this is actually going to cost HIM in the end. This is also not something that you can really make money on. By the time you raise your chams to 3+ months, you MIGHT be able to sell them for about $35. By the time they are this old, and that big, you have more than likely spent that much money on each one feeding and housing it. You will be lucky to break even in the end. Do the mature thing and show your dad that thread, and let him decide if this is something he would like to invest in.
Good luck to you, Clea, and your dad.
None of us are here to make you feel bad, but by announcing this publicly, you need to be open to hearing both good and bad criticism. Good luck to you and Clea. I am glad that Naomi has offered to help, because I am sure you will need it. Keep in mind that the larger the female, the more likely she is to have a larger clutch. I know that you have been cutting down her food intake, hopefully this will help.
I agree you may have jumped into this too soon. Keep in mind I am not trying to criticize you, I just believe you have NO IDEA the amount of work and MONEY it is going to take to raise these babies. Veileds have larger clutches, higher hatch rate, and grow much quicker (=more food) than panthers. While there may be people giving you support, who is going to be dishing out the money to house and feed these neonates? I have about 35 babies right now give or take and they are going through 1000+ crickets a week. Unless you are raising your own feeders that adds up real quick. 1000+ crickets plus shipping comes to about $35 a week, at the minimum. This does not include the cost of enclosures, lights, light fixtures, plants, etc, not to mention the increase in the electric bill.
If I were you, I would let your dad read the thread that Julirs wrote on "The cost of raising 69 veileds" if you have not already. Being 12 or 13?, I assume you do not have a job. In the end it will become your dads expense, and my guess is that he has no idea how much money this is actually going to cost HIM in the end. This is also not something that you can really make money on. By the time you raise your chams to 3+ months, you MIGHT be able to sell them for about $35. By the time they are this old, and that big, you have more than likely spent that much money on each one feeding and housing it. You will be lucky to break even in the end. Do the mature thing and show your dad that thread, and let him decide if this is something he would like to invest in.
Good luck to you, Clea, and your dad.
jojackson
New Member
Chrisnlisa, if the animal has mated and is actually gravid, its a little too late really.
They could choose to destroy some of the eggs, or perhaps Stefan and Naomi have a deal worked out to share hatchlings/expenditure/sales ? This is usually the case where a male is loaned for breeding purpouses.
In anycase, its not for folk here to assume anything in this regard. Stefan and his father have a close relationship and im sure his Dad supports him in his reptile endeavours, and that they have discussed the pros and cons of this undertaking.
Most members are well meaning, but sometimes they cross the line and seem rather condescending instead, try to keep some perpective, were talking about a boys first breeding enterprise, its an exciting, learning experience that most of you enjoyed regardless of circumstance, dont spoil it for him.
He never said he intended to make profit from it anyway. lighten up.
Its a chameleon, not the girl next door!
They could choose to destroy some of the eggs, or perhaps Stefan and Naomi have a deal worked out to share hatchlings/expenditure/sales ? This is usually the case where a male is loaned for breeding purpouses.
In anycase, its not for folk here to assume anything in this regard. Stefan and his father have a close relationship and im sure his Dad supports him in his reptile endeavours, and that they have discussed the pros and cons of this undertaking.
Most members are well meaning, but sometimes they cross the line and seem rather condescending instead, try to keep some perpective, were talking about a boys first breeding enterprise, its an exciting, learning experience that most of you enjoyed regardless of circumstance, dont spoil it for him.
He never said he intended to make profit from it anyway. lighten up.
Its a chameleon, not the girl next door!
warpdrive
Avid Member
I have to agree.
yet on the otherhand, it's your female Stefan...
you have suport from your friends here and in FL...
my main hope is that your father understands whats at stake money wise...because he is going to be in for a shock if not.
but it looks like you have your dad's suport
so I don't see a big deal.
you go ahead and do what you want. we got your back.
my best advise is start preparing now for whats to come next.
give her some time to herself, and start reading anything you can find on raising the eggs and babys.
I know you've done your research, but now is the time to reread everything.
by now her laying bin should be ready in the cage or a good outside one. what ever you are doing is fine.
be prepared for the eggs well in advance...like there will be layed tomorrow, because time flys by fast.
start a fruit fly culture a month in advance of your eggs being ready.
if you toss out at least one coulture, then you are doing things right.
start breeding your crickets...this way, buy the time you need them, you'll be ready and have that issue down.
it's not as hard as some people say, but breeding takes alot of responceability...I know you got that covered.
thanks for sharing this with us.
Harry
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Stefan,
Congrats on your new endeavor. I am sure Clea will be fine. She is a healthy and mature female, and I don't have any doubts in my mind you can pull this off. You have the dedication and resources to make this work out, as well as plenty of support from your local cham community. Don't let all the negative nancys put a damper on this experience. This is supposed to be a fun and exciting endeavor, and I feel you are mature enough to make this work out, so don't let the skeptics deter you from taking your chameleon keeping to the next level. You know how much work it can be to raise these animals, and now is the time do really educate yourself on what exactly needs to be done. I know myself and many other keepers are there to help you anyway we can. Alot of people don't realize how resilient veileds are, and I am seeing some negative comments coming from people that have never bred or raised hatchlings before. Also, popping eggs to reduce your clutch size is a terrible idea. Sure veileds can pump out some large clutches, but there are always people out there that are willing to contribute to assist in raising a clutch if you have financial limitations. You chose a great species to start with, and with the experience you gain from this, you can decide if you want to continue from there. Take your time with this, and I would breed her only this one time until after you hatch the babies and then want to continue breeding. I see too many keepers breed one female multiple times in a year, and they have 3+ clutches before the first one has even hatched.. Then they wonder what they're going to do with dozens of veileds with nipped tails and other manged body parts when they find their home flooded with babies. She might lay a second (or even 3rd) clutch from this pairing, so prepare to make accommodations for more than one clutch if you have to. Have fun with this and DO YOUR READING. This forum is rich with valuable resources, and so many people are willing to help, so don't even think about leaving any questions unanswered.
-Nic
Congrats on your new endeavor. I am sure Clea will be fine. She is a healthy and mature female, and I don't have any doubts in my mind you can pull this off. You have the dedication and resources to make this work out, as well as plenty of support from your local cham community. Don't let all the negative nancys put a damper on this experience. This is supposed to be a fun and exciting endeavor, and I feel you are mature enough to make this work out, so don't let the skeptics deter you from taking your chameleon keeping to the next level. You know how much work it can be to raise these animals, and now is the time do really educate yourself on what exactly needs to be done. I know myself and many other keepers are there to help you anyway we can. Alot of people don't realize how resilient veileds are, and I am seeing some negative comments coming from people that have never bred or raised hatchlings before. Also, popping eggs to reduce your clutch size is a terrible idea. Sure veileds can pump out some large clutches, but there are always people out there that are willing to contribute to assist in raising a clutch if you have financial limitations. You chose a great species to start with, and with the experience you gain from this, you can decide if you want to continue from there. Take your time with this, and I would breed her only this one time until after you hatch the babies and then want to continue breeding. I see too many keepers breed one female multiple times in a year, and they have 3+ clutches before the first one has even hatched.
. Then they wonder what they're going to do with dozens of veileds with nipped tails and other manged body parts when they find their home flooded with babies. She might lay a second (or even 3rd) clutch from this pairing, so prepare to make accommodations for more than one clutch if you have to. Have fun with this and DO YOUR READING. This forum is rich with valuable resources, and so many people are willing to help, so don't even think about leaving any questions unanswered.-Nic
nightcrawler
Avid Member
I don't think that popping them would be a bad idea. If your only doing it for the experience then why try to raise 30+ chams? Why not start with say less then 15? Its one thing to think you can raise a ton of babies, and another to know you can do it. I think that it would be more mature if you did cull some of the eggs. Just because you will know that you will be able to take care of said number of offspring 100%. Although, you might be able to take care of 30-60 babies at once you might not want that stress. If you can then your a good keeper, but if you cant take care of that many babys then its irresponsible, and cruel to the little chams that might suffer because of it. Someone mentioned the economy, and it is effecting things. People might not want veiled from just someone they don't know. Would you just buy some chams off of someone you don't really know? Someone who isn't a reputable breeder? You have to think of who you will be selling to too. If you care for them, and want them to go to a good home then you cant just sell them to anyone. I find tons of veileds at many crappy pet stores from local breeders who cant sell to anyone else. The pet stores sell them to anyone who will buy them, and dont really care for their well being. If you do know of people who will be willing to take some off your hands then i suggest you remember that, and give them to them. You said your doing this for experience so it doesn't matter if you raise them all or just enough to learn. No one said the only way to learn is to raise them all. You should only take on as much as you can, and either give the rest to the fathers family, or cull them. With getting rid of some (or most) you will be able to take care of them, and raise them properly. Good luck with this. I hope your gal pulls threw, and has no problems what so ever. I believe you will make a good decision with the eggs, and it will show your dad (and everyone else) how mature you are to not take on something that you cant handle.
