Broken/missing teeth???

[ChrisnLisa]

This boy has been under our care for roughly 2 months. At the time we acquired him, he was 6 months of age. Up until the last few days he has been very docile, easy to handle. Today he gaped at me for the first time, and I saw what appeared to be black teeth. It appears some of his teeth are breaking off, or falling out. Is this mouthrot?, as we have never had to deal with this with any of our chameleons. I have attached photos of his mouth with the spots I am referring to. I used a q-tip to move his lip down for a better view and a few of his teeth wiggled, like a child with a loose tooth. I circled the area that felt loose in black. I am at a complete loss, and feel terrible, as I am not sure what to do for him until I can call the vet on Monday. Any help or experience with this is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sporkthedork]

The only thing I can think of is mouth rot. I never had an experience with it, but there was a post earlier this year (or near the end of last year) about a chameleon who had mouth rot to the extent that a good portion of her lower jaw fell off. I found the thread:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/vet-update-i-think-16937/
Usually when members post mouth rot pics, it looks more like a lump or bump on their lips that's filled with puss.

Is your cham's mouth yellow (I'm colorblind, it might be green to you normal people)? I've never seen a yellow mouth in any of my four chameleons, they all seem to be white or some off white color. You should read this thread about a chameleon with jaundice:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/yellow-mouth-21966/

 

[Docility]

his teeth are decaying, but the real question is why. they are bone not hard cartilage right?

 

[jannb]

I would feed him soft food (worms) until you can get him to the vet.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

nah, it's probably not decay, it's damage. Happens when tey bite something too hard - metal, other male panther chameleon jaws, etc. I've seen what happens whem males fight - missing teeth.

Also happens when people open their mouths with tweezers, to give medicine or force feed.

the looseness is weird. that would suggest some sort of mineral problem,but I doubt you'd see a tooth problem before anything else.

 

[Kent67]

but I doubt you'd see a tooth problem before anything else.

Agreed, especially not without any other swelling. I have seen tooth loss and loose bone/teeth but it was the result of an infection that was causing swelling visible from inside and outside the mouth. I think a vet visit is a must to know how bad it is and how to treat it long-term, but I'd start by going with Eric's assessment that it's cause was a physical injury. It doesn't appear to be infected, which is great considering there may be loose bone, and all efforts should be taken to keep it as clean as possible.

 

[Titan]

Up his suppliments immediately till you get your vet visit, My concern is not the Broken teath but the loose ones. But chances are the loose ones broke at a point below the Gumline from contact with a hard source as said above. Either way upping the suppliments for now will at least aid in the remaining teeth (jawbone) to stay strong or heal. Have the vet check anyhow though.

Edit: I does appear The Cham Bit down on somthing hard as broken teeth are in the exact same area on opposite side.

 

[ChrisnLisa]

Thanks guys. Interesting, fighting might make sense. When we got him about 2 months ago he did have some scratches and nose rub that I was treating with Silvadene cream. I just pulled some photos of when we just got him and some of the scratches he had look like they could be bite marks. You can see in the photo where I circled it looks like a "V", which now leads me to believe it was a bite, not a scratch. I just feel awful I didn't notice this sooner. We have had no reason to force his mouth open, and he's been so docile he hasn't gaped at me.

Kent and Eric- what do you suggest I keep it clean with in the meantime? Is there anything you can think of that I should have the vet "test" for....I haven't been real impressed with her ever since my female had egg problems.

 

[Kent67]

I'd probably go with something like using a pipette or syringe to flush it out with Betadine. Even a saline solution might work to flush and clean it out some. Be very careful though, if that jawline is loose. Then again, I'm not sure it would be possible to do anything other than wait for it to fall out on its own. He's young, and young captive born panthers are pretty resilient. I would think preventing infection will probably be the only course of action. He may lose some more jaw with teeth but I think he'll adapt to it and lead a normal life.

As for what to test for at the vet's, I would think there isn't much besides maybe doing a fecal for parasites that would tell you much. A blood test for husbandry-related issues from his previous owner would have cleared up by now (calicum, etc). I feel bad for the guy but he's a beautiful lizard and I think should be fine if you keep an eye on it for complications.

 

[ChrisnLisa]

Thanks Kent...looks like we're taking a trip to the drugstore. He is very beautiful, especially being so young. I just want him happy (as much as a captive cham can be) and healthy. Thanks for the advice!

 

[ChrisnLisa]

Well now I am getting really concerned. My vet only has one appointment this week, tomorrow at 12:15pm, which is while I'm at work. Starting next Mon. She is out of town for 10 days. I am a little upset, as I stressed how bad it looked, but they still cannot seem to fit me in. This is also the same vet who would not give me a second dose of oxytocin for one of my girls until I was basicly begging her. I have another cham that has had an eye issue for MONTHS that she just can't seem to figure out. I'm starting to think she's avoiding me because of this I'm about ready to make the four hour trip to Dr. Greek, as there is no one else local who "knows" chameleons. Grrrr...sorry to vent, extremely frustrated.

So what suggestions do you folks have in the meantime until i find someone to see him. Just keep flushing it? I'm not really sure what else I can do

 

[lampshade]

ARRRRR... He looks like a pirate.

 

[kinyonga]

Chameleons have acrodont teeth...they are joined/fused to the jawbone....so I don't know how they would be loose. I would think that the whole jawbone under the teeth would be separated from the parts either side....but I'm not a vet so I can only assume. I also don't know if it would be infection, injury or lack of calcium that would be involved...you need a vet to determine this.

I would think that if he loses all of those areas that are shown in your pictures that it might be difficult for him to chew because the different sections of the jaw bone won't be joined so I would think it would be flexible.

As for the yellow mouth...many panther chameleons have a naturally yellow mucous lining to the mouth.

 

[AncientCritters]

The panther in the earlier link that lost all the top teeth belongs to me. She is a WC ankaramy that I had a month or so at the time I took her to the vet for mouth rot. I was told the infection was there for a long time and got into the bones. She had no top teeth but still manages to eat just fine. She just had to chew the crickets a little more.