Back from the Vet and not good :(

[cantgetagoodsn]

Edema is a side effect of over supplementation. As stated the throat area will swell and give the appearance of swollen puffy animal. Almost like when a person is prescribed steroids, and they swell and gain water weight.

I dont think giving calcium at every other feeding was undersupplemting him. After he gets over this I'd recommend adding additional calcium to the feeders gutload. Try using water gel for hydration they have calcium added to them. Do you also add fruits and veggies to your feeder bin? I like to add a diff fruit or veggie each week to help round out nutrition, in addition to the crick crack.

I'll give that a shot too. I think he's going to be fine. At first I was scared that he wasn't going to make it, honestly. But now, he seems to be doing better. It's been a couple of days of being able to get that Repta Aid down him so I know he's at least getting SOME nutrients. It looks like he's decently supporting himself instead of lying there. He was holding himself up vertically, and he's moved a tad. If he does have MBD, at least it's very minuscule... He doesn't physically appear to have it. I'll post pics tomorrow.

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

So today he seems a little more alert... I came home and he's even hanging upside down! So I dont know if it's as bad as I thought.

Heres some pics...

 

[jessica]

Is there something hanging out of his vent I see it in the second picture?

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

Is there something hanging out of his vent I see it in the second picture?

Ya, I forgot to ask yall what that is. It seems like poop he couldnt get rid of completely...

 

[jessica]

That's what it looks like but it's hard to tell in the picture. Have you seen his feces from today? Is it hard and crumbly? Is his urate nice and smooth or is that chunky and crystallized?

You said his basking spot is 84-86 do you see him bask often? I know you said he hasn't really wanted to move much.

Sorry about all the questions I'm just curious if he has the start of MBD because he wasn't warming up enough to digest his food properly or may be an internal problem.

 

[Dawniegirl]

I was getting a little worried when my Jackson's was getting lethargic. I looked online and saw a lot of people saying the same thing. But then he stopped eating, HARDLY uses his front feet, and will not move at all. Plus sleeping more during the day.

The vet at first thought he had mouth rot, but then decided it was just dried up blood. I may have accidentally cut (I think) him when I was trying to get in the Repta Aid. He suggested calcium injections, but didn't have any. I called the other vet in my area and in order to give those injections, I need another appointment, and unfortunately do not have the money right now. Now guys, I usually have excess cash for exactly this, but this week a lot of unexpected costs have presented themselves, so please hold the lecture. Thank you.

So now, the vet recommended giving him as much calcium as I could. I was only giving him calcium every other 1-2 feedings, as recommendation of this forum. I think that is WAY too little now... he may have MBD

Any suggestions on making him open his mouth? I can't do ANYTHING to get his mouth open...


Here are my questions from last thread:

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Jackson's Chameleon. He is about a year and a half, I've had him a little over six months.
Handling - Right now, only if I need to.
Feeding - Crickets and waxworms. He eats 3-8 every other day. I am gutloading with cricket crack.
Supplements - Reptivite of calcium, calcium with D3, and multivitamin. He gets calcium about every other feeding, and the other two once a month.
Watering - Combination of MistKing and a dripper. I see him drinking all of the time.
Fecal Description - Poop is somewhat soft. Urine is white most of the time.
History - Received him from flchams.com and have had him since.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - I have a 2'x2'x4' screen cage which is always left open for free ranging.
Lighting - Reptiglo and Reptisun 5.0 linear tubes. One on top of his cage, and one on top of the free range. I have a 40W bulb for basking.
Temperature - Basking is about 84-86. Everywhere else is about 70-72. Overnight doesn't get below 65 ever. I have a digital thermo to measure temp.
Humidity - Humidity is 60%-85% most of the time. Using live plants and MistKing to regulate humidity. I use a digital gauge to measure.
Plants - Three pothos.
Placement - In my room, plenty high off the ground. 6.5 ft.
Location - Lubbock, TX.

What about an oral Calcium? My cham got a blood test showing his calcium to phosphorous level was 1:1 & per the vet should have been 2:1 so I got an oral calcium from the vet. It didn't cost that much. Maybe you can call your vet that you brought him to & ask for the oral stuff. My vet said it's easily absorbed & like 10x the amount he would have been getting from the power. BTW i don't have the best method I'll admit for getting him to open his mouth so I'll be checking through this thread for other ideas. Best wishes for your cham!!!!

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

That's what it looks like but it's hard to tell in the picture. Have you seen his feces from today? Is it hard and crumbly? Is his urate nice and smooth or is that chunky and crystallized?

You said his basking spot is 84-86 do you see him bask often? I know you said he hasn't really wanted to move much.

Sorry about all the questions I'm just curious if he has the start of MBD because he wasn't warming up enough to digest his food properly or may be an internal problem.

The vet thought it MIGHT be MBD. I unfortunately didn't have the money for an xray right now because of unexpected expenses. He has moved to the basking spot a little the last couple of days.

What about an oral Calcium? My cham got a blood test showing his calcium to phosphorous level was 1:1 & per the vet should have been 2:1 so I got an oral calcium from the vet. It didn't cost that much. Maybe you can call your vet that you brought him to & ask for the oral stuff. My vet said it's easily absorbed & like 10x the amount he would have been getting from the power. BTW i don't have the best method I'll admit for getting him to open his mouth so I'll be checking through this thread for other ideas. Best wishes for your cham!!!!

I am using Repta Aid right now which has the correct calciumhosphorus ratio along with other nutrients. I will call and ask if they have oral calcium... thanks for the tip.

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

This morning Reptar seems to be a little more alert. He's actually moving around a little bit and using all four of his legs. He also successfully went to the bathroom this morning. YAY!

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I didnt think to ask you. Are you still lettin him free range? He may not be spending enough time in his cage under the basking lamp as Jessica stated. That could be causing him to not be able to get warm enough to utilze the avail nutrients in his feeders. I think I'd stop the free ranging until he went back to normal and see if that helps.

How was his poo? White urate nice firm brown part? I'd also try mixing in some new feeders bro. He needs some horns and silks and try getting him a few hoppers now and then. Maybe some dubia if your willing to mess with em. I have a few chams that wont eat em others will. It will give him a better feeding response.

 

[jessica]

I didnt think to ask you. Are you still lettin him free range? He may not be spending enough time in his cage under the basking lamp as Jessica stated. That could be causing him to not be able to get warm enough to utilze the avail nutrients in his feeders. I think I'd stop the free ranging until he went back to normal and see if that helps.

How was his poo? White urate nice firm brown part? I'd also try mixing in some new feeders bro. He needs some horns and silks and try getting him a few hoppers now and then. Maybe some dubia if your willing to mess with em. I have a few chams that wont eat em others will. It will give him a better feeding response.

Thanks Scott this is exactly what I think may be going on.

OP Like Scott had mentioned I would not free range him for a while or may be cut down the size of his FR so it will be easier for him to bask and for you to monitor it. Just my opinion

Good luck

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

I didnt think to ask you. Are you still lettin him free range? He may not be spending enough time in his cage under the basking lamp as Jessica stated. That could be causing him to not be able to get warm enough to utilze the avail nutrients in his feeders. I think I'd stop the free ranging until he went back to normal and see if that helps.

How was his poo? White urate nice firm brown part? I'd also try mixing in some new feeders bro. He needs some horns and silks and try getting him a few hoppers now and then. Maybe some dubia if your willing to mess with em. I have a few chams that wont eat em others will. It will give him a better feeding response.

Thanks Scott this is exactly what I think may be going on.

OP Like Scott had mentioned I would not free range him for a while or may be cut down the size of his FR so it will be easier for him to bask and for you to monitor it. Just my opinion

Good luck

Not only am I really not letting him out of his cage he's staying inside it near the basking and i moved the UVB strip from out to in so now he has UVB on the entire cage.

I'm not too sure that it was him not basking, because I would see him several times a day basking up there. I think I wasnt giving him enough calcium on his feeders honestly. I read on here to keep the calcium to every other feeding, though, I think I will up that once he starts eating again for sure. Sometimes he flat out wouldn't eat. I need to get him cup trained so he can eat as he pleases. And I do know I need to order more feeders, I wish there was a place around here to get stuff other than crix, waxworms, and superworms. When I am out of this apt I may look into doing a dubia colony. I've heard they aren't terribly hard.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Dubia are really easier than crix man. They dont stink at all. And I only clean my roach bin occasionally. Like evry cpl of months. They get a crick crack and fruits and romaine. Easiest feeders Ive ever dealt with. The only downside is you have to either cup feed em or hand feed em. Cuz they tend to run for cover if you free range feed these.

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

So I wake up this morning to find that he is hanging upside down by two legs. some say this is normal, some say this is bad. any comments?

 

[stevie]

hello there , first of al be carreful with opening his mouth,with a weakend cameleon with to litle calcium you could brake his jaw , then my advise i keep jacks for many years now so as other mountain species and they need to cool down it is really needed for there metabolisme and health system , you say that you give your cameleon calcium and vitamins aswel as d3 thats good only be careful on the d3 to much is very bad for your cameleon , now if you dont have a strong drop in night temps. he wont take it in to his system , you say that you never kept him under 65 ° thats to warm i keep mine at 50 ° or less . i had an experiance with d3 , about 21 years ago i had my first cam and he had te same as yours and believe it or not it came from to much d3 if you over give it ,it works the opposite it pulls calcium away from the bones , he died butt i never made the same mistake again , i give d3 only in winter times and 1 a week or every 2 weeks ,provide enough uv light
if you have more questions lett me know ,sorry for your cam and grts

 

[jojackson]

So I wake up this morning to find that he is hanging upside down by two legs. some say this is normal, some say this is bad. any comments?

No big deal, just make sure wherever it does that will be in reach of another branch or vine etc (where poss) to minimize the chance of falling any distance.

 

[cantgetagoodsn]

hello there , first of al be carreful with opening his mouth,with a weakend cameleon with to litle calcium you could brake his jaw , then my advise i keep jacks for many years now so as other mountain species and they need to cool down it is really needed for there metabolisme and health system , you say that you give your cameleon calcium and vitamins aswel as d3 thats good only be careful on the d3 to much is very bad for your cameleon , now if you dont have a strong drop in night temps. he wont take it in to his system , you say that you never kept him under 65 ° thats to warm i keep mine at 50 ° or less . i had an experiance with d3 , about 21 years ago i had my first cam and he had te same as yours and believe it or not it came from to much d3 if you over give it ,it works the opposite it pulls calcium away from the bones , he died butt i never made the same mistake again , i give d3 only in winter times and 1 a week or every 2 weeks ,provide enough uv light
if you have more questions lett me know ,sorry for your cam and grts

Ive never given him more than 2 feedings for calcium D3 a month...

I tried to give him a wax worm when he open his mouth, but he just let it sit there. He had no desire to eat it what so ever.

 

[stevie]

Ive never given him more than 2 feedings for calcium D3 a month...

I tried to give him a wax worm when he open his mouth, but he just let it sit there. He had no desire to eat it what so ever.

keep in mind wat i said about the metabolism it doenst work if they cant cool down

 

[kinyonga]

Stevie said..."you say that you give your cameleon calcium and vitamins aswel as d3 thats good only be careful on the d3 to much is very bad for your cameleon , now if you dont have a strong drop in night temps. he wont take it in to his system"...do you have an article I could read or a source of information concerning the need for a temperature drop at night being needed for a chameleon to take in the D3? I'd be very interested in reading about it.

 

[jojackson]

It appears the rate of thermal isomerisation of vit D decreases as temperature is reduced.

http://www.pnas.org/content/92/8/3124.full.pdf

 

[kinyonga]

You're getting too good at this Jojackson!
Thanks!