young veiled chameleon question

[dakotakleiner]

HERES MY INFORMATION
Your Chameleon - veiled, male, Aprox. 5-6months of age in my care for 3 months
Handling - before he got sick i handled him 2-3 times a week for a few minutes
Feeding -just yesterday i fed him 3 meal worms for the first time 5-6 crickets everyday sometimes i miss a day or two. i feed my crickets fruits greens all kinds of different things
Supplements - i use rep-cal and herptivite i was dusting crickets everytime i fed him...now repcal once a week and herptivite every other week
Watering - i mist few times a day 2-5 for at least one minute sometimes a few minutes but i wait til the cage drops down in humidity before misting again i also have a dripper
Fecal Description - his droppings sometimes are brown and yellow and sometimes white hes never been tested but hes been drinking a lot more water than usual
History - hes on baytril right now for popping and wheezing he was having trouble breathing....i think he caught it on a ride to the pet store to get checked out its cold here but i wrapped him in a tubber ware dish and brought him there the tub stayed 75 degrees the hole time i dont know what happend

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen cage except front door and floor are plexiglass its 30 inchs high and 24 by 24 roughly
Lighting - 730 am - 645 pm he has an r-zilla t8 its 5.0 im like positive and a 75 watt basking light exo-terra sunglo... he also has a flunkers indacent bulb 75watt however u spell it i need both bulb because his cage size and during the winter if not his temps will be like 65-70 during the day
Temperature -the mid cage is in the 80s 75-85 and the Lowest overnight temp is 68 the basking spot is 83-89degrees the floor of the cage is 70-76 but he rarely goes down there i measure these temps with two thermometer probes
Humidity - my humidity level always drops down to about 30-35% after i mist the cage its anywhere from 60-99% but i believe its only 99% because the water gets in the probe and it drops down to 70-60 fairly quickly after misting the cage i measure this with a hygrometer
Plants - fake and live two live pothos
Placement - its in the corner of my room near a heat vent for air circulation and some heat no one really comes in my room the cage is on a stand about 1.5 ft off the ground
Location Michigan





reason im posting this....is because i fed martian 3 meal worms yesterday and hes been closing his eyes a lot and i dont know why i just took him out of the cage after i misted it he had on eye closed and he kept blinking sometimes closing both eyes for a few seconds....i put him back in the cage he ran to the back and climbed up the screen seemed like he was looking at some crickets that were not moving then he ran all the way around the cage drank some water and now hes napping again but when i go up to his cage hell notice me and look and kind of close his eyes again could it have to do with digesting the meal worms? hes also on baytril right now and his last dose is in three days....hes not wheezing anymore but his nose pops a little but not much and you have to listen to it for a minute to hear it.....i hope hes getting better any suggestions guys??/ also his poop has been getting whiter..

 

[BocaJan]

For starters a veiled needs dusted crickets every day with calcium to help build strong bones. Also, they live in trees so they need to have a screen cage where they can get lots of fresh air. There MUST be a UVB tube light over the outside top of the cage. The UV can penetrate screen but not the plexiglass or even glass.

There should also be a light bulb in a clamp light fixture for them to bask. The warmth helps them to digest their food and regulate their temps so they don't get URI's. The heat by the bulb should be between about 82-85 and the temps at the bottom of the cage about 70-75. Lights are all turned off at night. They should sleep at about 70 but can go as low as 55 as long as they can bask in the morning.

Your little guy probably has a URI from the sound of it. Who gave you the baytril to give him? That is pretty potent and should be given to you by a vet with instructions.

I have 13 veileds and 75 babies.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Questions and comments....

Hi there....Can you check to see exactly which UVB product you are using. There was another recent thread where someone was having problems and the issue of r-Zilla Desert series T-8 bulbs came up. r-Zilla is one of the manufacturers of products that was causing severe eye problems and skin burns in chameleons. The recent link is below:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-panther-chameleon-set-up-please-help-35104/index2.html

Also, when chams are being medicated with Baytril, which would be correct for a URI problem, you need to make an extra effort to hydrate the cham. Baytril is hard on the kidneys. Extra misting to promote drinking is a must.

I would keep the night temperatures 70 to 72 degrees during recovery. URIs require a boost in temperature to be resolved quickly. The warmth keeps the metabolism up which helps the immune system as well.

A Veiled that age should be pounding down crickets. 10 to 15 a day. I would forget the mealworms for now. There is very little nutrition in them for a growing cham. Roaches or hornworms would be better.

Can we get a picture of your cham and a picture of your set up from a distance so we can see it all? Pictures often say what words don't. It's good that you took your boy to the vet. URI can spiral out of control quickly.

 

[jojackson]

Placement - its in the corner of my room near a heat vent for air circulation and some heat
Humidity - my humidity level always drops down to about 30-35% after i mist the cage its anywhere from 60-99% but i believe its only 99% because the water gets in the probe and it drops down to 70-60 fairly quickly after misting the cage i measure this with a hygrometer


Your humidity drops because of the proximity to the heat vent. Wild swings of humidity and temp are very likely whats caused the RI in the first place.
Move that cage well away from the vent for a start. Recheck your temps and humidity with reliable (digital) gauges.
'R-Zilla' sounds familiar, Im not sure its not a brand associated with eye problems (somebody else will know), in any case, closing its eyes may simply be associated with hot dry air from the vent.

 

[dakotakleiner]

ya a vet gave me the baytril and the dosage i was using calcium w/d3 everyday but everybody on here told me not to im now dusting 5 days a week in plain calcium(hard to find) went to 3 stores before finding it i have everything you stated he started getting sleepy around 530 his lights go off around 6:30

For starters a veiled needs dusted crickets every day with calcium to help build strong bones. Also, they live in trees so they need to have a screen cage where they can get lots of fresh air. There MUST be a UVB tube light over the outside top of the cage. The UV can penetrate screen but not the plexiglass or even glass.

There should also be a light bulb in a clamp light fixture for them to bask. The warmth helps them to digest their food and regulate their temps so they don't get URI's. The heat by the bulb should be between about 82-85 and the temps at the bottom of the cage about 70-75. Lights are all turned off at night. They should sleep at about 70 but can go as low as 55 as long as they can bask in the morning.

Your little guy probably has a URI from the sound of it. Who gave you the baytril to give him? That is pretty potent and should be given to you by a vet with instructions.

I have 13 veileds and 75 babies.

 

[dakotakleiner]

ive had the vent closed up for a about two days....im thinking about covering the back and the side of the cage to possibly hold humidity until the summer time...? i have two digital probes that read out...

Placement - its in the corner of my room near a heat vent for air circulation and some heat
Humidity - my humidity level always drops down to about 30-35% after i mist the cage its anywhere from 60-99% but i believe its only 99% because the water gets in the probe and it drops down to 70-60 fairly quickly after misting the cage i measure this with a hygrometer


Your humidity drops because of the proximity to the heat vent. Wild swings of humidity and temp are very likely whats caused the RI in the first place.
Move that cage well away from the vent for a start. Recheck your temps and humidity with reliable (digital) gauges.
'R-Zilla' sounds familiar, Im not sure its not a brand associated with eye problems (somebody else will know), in any case, closing its eyes may simply be associated with hot dry air from the vent.

 

[dakotakleiner]

 

[dakotakleiner]

ive been misting alot not over doing it but just to influence drinking i dont see him drink everyday he laps his lips and drinks about 3-4 times a week ( that i see ) he has 3 more days left of his 14 days of doses of baytril ....hes very small i dont really think hes almost 6 months old thats just what the pet store told me....they had just got them in and i bought him every one elses veiled chameleons i see that are 5-6 months are much bigger

 

[justjumpit621]

Are there spur like things on the heels of his back feet? It looks to me like you have a female =P

 

[justjumpit621]

That may also be the reason why it is smaller. Males tend to be much larger than females and if you've been looking at male veileds that is probably why they look larger to you.

 

[jojackson]

Age/size cant be guessed at really. So much depends on its care/feeding in the first 6 months during which most of its growth takes place. It may well be six months.
You might cover your water collector tub with some screen & elastic band or something, incase he gets in it and gets into trouble.
Insects, especially crickets will tend to drown in it.
Looks like you have it right by a window also. Be very carefull in summer if the sun hits that window directly, its very easy to overheat a small lizard.
P.s. keep up the calcium suppliment and as much natural unfiltered (not through glass etc) light as possible. Notice the top lip dosent quite meet the bottom.

he started getting sleepy around 530 his lights go off around 6:30


This is not particularly unusual. If you use a timer to regulate his photoperiod (light hours) he will become more predictable in this regard. My own cham often settles around an hour before lights off.

 

[dakotakleiner]

its a boy it has spurs ......yes you are correct and my room gets very hot in the summer so......iam going to have to come up with solutions :/

 

[whitespyder]

just curious, when he does the nose popping sound, does he do it awake or asleep? ive noticed my cham doing it for a little bit just now and its every minute or so, but shes asleep.

and i would stop feeding him mealworms until hes bigger and even then id offer them sparingly. chams can end up getting impacted from the chitin in the shells if they eat them too much. crickets are much easier to digest for his little tummy. and when hes big enough, superworms have less chitin than mealworms so you might want to try those. hes a cute little boy

 

[dakotakleiner]

well when i caught him wheezing he was awake opening his mouth a little and breathing in air i read online that thats signs of and upper respiratory infection and to put him up to my ear and see if he pops while breathing and thats also a sign of a URI well hes been on baytril for almost two weeks for his URI whatever you want to call it most of his symptoms are gone but his nose still pops if i listen to him for like 60 seconds or so but when he was real bad he was weezing like 4 times a minute since i started him on the medicine i havnt heard him wheez once

 

[jojackson]

Thats a good sign, but complete the med course all the same.
Incidently, sometimes when a lizard is shedding, skin inside the nostrils can make a wheezy sound as the lizard breathes. This is sometimes mistaken for an infection. Is the lizard holding its head pointing up? or keeping its mouth slightly open?

 

[AReptile]

Lights are all turned off at night. They should sleep at about 70 but can go as low as 55 as long as they can bask in the morning.

Should the light be turned off if you live in a cold area? I live in NY and it's been pretty cold here, the heat in my house is usually on 64-66 degrees at night.

 

[pssh]

There should be no heat source on a veiled at night unless it drops below 50 degrees F. If it does, then I suggest getting a space heater to warm the room to at least 55 degrees F.

 

[dakotakleiner]

well i dont know if he was holding his head up but he went from opening his mouth and making a noise (like wheezing) a few times a day........too opening his mouth and wheezing a few times a minute......at that point i took him to the vet he also had crusties around his nose(which could have simply been from over supplementing)

 

[PardalisGirl]

Temperatures........

Veileds recovering from URI issues need to be keep at warmer temperatures. Healthy Veileds are very hardy. A young one with a URI is not. Night temperatures should be kept at a minimum of 70 degrees. In this keeper's weather locale a night heater is essential for recovery. The area under the heater should be warmer than 70 degrees. A Veiled's metabolism, which fuels the immune system, is totally dependant on temperature. Metabolism slows in proportion to temperature. When the immune system compromised from an illness it needs the warmer temperatures at ALL times of the day to keep the metabolism running so the body can fight the infection and heal.

If you keep this cham at the lower temperatures that a healthy Veiled can tolerate you will slowly kill it. The immune system will never fully recover and the bacteria or virus causing the URI will overtake the system. I'm not just coming up with this recommendation from thin air. It's been recommended by my own excellent vet and by countless numbers of vets that have seen other chams on this forum with URI's or other infections.....

 

[dakotakleiner]

I believe you. The lowest his temaptures dropped in the past 2 days was 68 degrees which worries me I'm going to start leaving his night light on again( a lot of members told me not to use it) but he sleeps fine in 72-74 degrees he acctually always sleeps near the warm side of the cage.. I hope hell be okay but today his baytril was orange I called the vet they said they'll call me back; he only needs it for 2 more days but I'm worried the baytril hasn't been working to its potential.. I leave it out side because its 30 degrees out there but its been warm the past couple days...last week I refridgerated it but this week I meessed it up :*(