Which arcadia lights do I buy again?

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Agreed

 

[Uri]

I don’t understand why you are getting upset you’re shoving an animal in an enclosure too small. Jackson’s aren’t as forgiving as veileds or panthers in their care and hide their signs of stress much more the only reptibreeze sizes are the 16x16x20, 16x16x30 18x18x36 and the 24x24x48 there is no such reptibreeze cage that’s the size you mentioned that chameleon is going to die on you if you don’t provide the proper changes I doubt you have every inch of your apartment filled to where you can’t move on little thing to provide that type of space you need to get creative for the sake of the animals health if you aren’t willing to provide it it’s space I can’t imagine what else isn’t being provided

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I’m sorry but the absolute minimum for most chameleons is 24x24x48 it really doesn’t take up that much space

Umm.... You can (theoretically) fit eight 12x12x24s into the volume of one 24x24x48. IOW, a 24x24x48 takes up 8 times the space, but that doesn't change/justify keeping them in too small enclosures.

12x12x24 is MUCH too small for a Jackson’s

+1 Total agreement.

Like I said I literally don't have the space.

Then

1. I hope they're not all in the same 12x12x24, and
2. I hope you plan to divest all of them soon.

Thanks for the concern but there's literally nothing I can do, I do not have the space. You can keep mentioning it but that isn't going to change that I don't have the space.

Sorry, but that sets off my BS detector. There's a LOT you could have done and still can, starting with asking for help here.

Proper UVB is most critical—to prevent MBD—when these animals are young and growing quickly as they are now.

the only reptibreeze sizes are the 16x16x20, 16x16x30 18x18x36 and the 24x24x48 there is no such reptibreeze cage that’s the size you mentioned

There is, but it's not all-screen, and not one most of us would try to raise a chameleon in.
https://zoomed.com/paludarium-habitat-kit/

ConfusedHornwormGuy, what are your intentions for these animals?
IF it's to keep them in these conditions until they're 3 months old, and then sell them to cash-in for $75 to $175 each, then IMO you're no better than a puppy mill.
IF your intent is to keep them, things may be even worse.
I hope/pray I'm wrong about both/either.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Umm.... You can (theoretically) fit eight 12x12x24s into the volume of one 24x24x48. IOW, a 24x24x48 takes up 8 times the space, but that doesn't change/justify keeping them in too small enclosures.


+1 Total agreement.


Then

1. I hope they're not all in the same 12x12x24, and
2. I hope you plan to divest all of them soon.

Sorry, but that sets off my BS detector. There's a LOT you could have done and still can, starting with asking for help here.

Proper UVB is most critical—to prevent MBD—when these animals are young and growing quickly as they are now.


There is, but it's not all-screen, and not one most of us would try to raise a chameleon in.
https://zoomed.com/paludarium-habitat-kit/

ConfusedHornwormGuy, what are your intentions for these animals?
IF it's to keep them in these conditions until they're 3 months old, and then sell them to cash-in for $75 to $175 each, then IMO you're no better than a puppy mill.
IF your intent is to keep them, things may be even worse.
I hope/pray I'm wrong about both/either.

The cages are 16x16x30, standard reptibreeze cages. My intention is in keeping them. I really don't have the room for bugger cages than that. I also had read online 16x16x30 is fine. I don't see it as an insufficient amount of space and my ballast is in a good position well above the screen.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

I also paid like 250$ for my jacksons and 250$ for my panther chameleon, flip them for a profit like a puppy mill, really? Come on guys.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

All of my chameleons are using this size of cage and similar setups, bucket of sand with a water resevoir, chicken crate, and a stainless steel mesh above chicken crate at the bottom. Ballast placed 6-8 inches above the cages. Feeders provided at regular schedules with the correct supplements, water provided daily multiple times a day. I take very good care of them, the best I can the best I know how with the space I have. I can't afford larger cages than these 16x16x30 cages right now. But I understand what you're saying. As they grow and get larger the cage won't be enough space to accomodate them. I won't be in this apartment forever but I also don't know how long I'll be here. It's a studio space and it's small. If I had known they would all need 24x24x48 cages which is another 1/3rd of the size I wouldn't have bought 3. I have room to increase maybe 1 to 24x24x48 at this point, it really is a cramped space. I'm not trying to put my chameleons at risk or ruin their health or take bad care of them - I'm not even intentionally depriving them of the space, it's just a factor of my own circumstance. If I had known prior to buying them I'd need a 24x24x48 setup I wouldn't have purchased them in the first place, but it's a bit too late for that and I'm not planning on giving them away or selling them. My plan is to raise them proper. I just don't understand how it's literally going to kill them, given these are the cages I see many people use and have used and even was the standard in the past but clearly those standards have changed. I'm not able to afford larger cages, I also don't have the space.

 

[Uri]

View attachment 315064

All of my chameleons are using this size of cage and similar setups, bucket of sand with a water resevoir, chicken crate, and a stainless steel mesh above chicken crate at the bottom. Ballast placed 6-8 inches above the cages. Feeders provided at regular schedules with the correct supplements, water provided daily multiple times a day. I take very good care of them, the best I can the best I know how with the space I have. I can't afford larger cages than these 16x16x30 cages right now. But I understand what you're saying. As they grow and get larger the cage won't be enough space to accomodate them. I won't be in this apartment forever but I also don't know how long I'll be here. It's a studio space and it's small. If I had known they would all need 24x24x48 cages which is another 1/3rd of the size I wouldn't have bought 3. I have room to increase maybe 1 to 24x24x48 at this point, it really is a cramped space. I'm not trying to put my chameleons at risk or ruin their health or take bad care of them - I'm not even intentionally depriving them of the space, it's just a factor of my own circumstance. If I had known prior to buying them I'd need a 24x24x48 setup I wouldn't have purchased them in the first place, but it's a bit too late for that and I'm not planning on giving them away or selling them. My plan is to raise them proper. I just don't understand how it's literally going to kill them, given these are the cages I see many people use and have used and even was the standard in the past but clearly those standards have changed. I'm not able to afford larger cages, I also don't have the space.

Larger cages aren’t much more and whoever told you they can live in that size cage is wrong the absolute minimum is 24 24 48. The chameleon in that picture looks like a female veiled or me and one with eggs especially for female egg layers space is crucial to fit a proper egg laying container

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Larger cages aren’t much more and whoever told you they can live in that size cage is wrong the absolute minimum is 24 24 48. The chameleon in that picture looks like a female veiled or me and one with eggs especially for female egg layers space is crucial to fit a proper egg laying container

She has already laid eggs in this setup once... the egg laying went totally fine, she's not gravid or egg bound, she laid about 20 eggs in her clutch which my understanding isn't horrible, it's not too much but could be lowered to a more managable amount with dietary changes which since then I've tapered down her feedings and made sure she's not overfed/fed too much. I understand that an egg laying container is crucial, which is why I have one in there for her to lay. I understand she will eventually be too big for this cage, and I never planned to leave her in a 16x16x30 cage if she's not able to fit into that bin comfortably and lay. But she's still really small and has that space to do so. I hear what you're saying and don't disagree, no need to beat a dead horse.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

The cages are 16x16x30, standard reptibreeze cages.

You're the one who said they were 12x12x24. There is no 'standard' size for Reptibreeze.

My intention is in keeping them. I really don't have the room for bugger cages than that. I also had read online 16x16x30 is fine.

Where, please? The smallest I find 'online' is 18x18x36, except for Petsmart—the Jon Snow of chameleon husbandry!

Any reputable source recommends a minimum of 24x24x36-48.
https://reptilesmagazine.com/expert-tips-on-keeping-the-jacksons-chameleon/
https://chameleonacademy.com/jacksons-chameleon-care/
https://chamownersweb.net/husbandry/care_sheet_jacksons.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/enclsize.html

Smaller sizes may be old/outdated information.

I don't see it as an insufficient amount of space and my ballast is in a good position well above the screen.

I may not see pizza as fattening, but my waistline may beg to differ.

Well above?

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

You're the one who said they were 12x12x24. There is no 'standard' size for Reptibreeze.


Where, please? The smallest I find 'online' is 18x18x36, except for Petsmart—the Jon Snow of chameleon husbandry!

Any reputable source recommends a minimum of 24x24x36-48.
https://reptilesmagazine.com/expert-tips-on-keeping-the-jacksons-chameleon/
https://chameleonacademy.com/jacksons-chameleon-care/
https://chamownersweb.net/husbandry/care_sheet_jacksons.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/enclsize.html

Smaller sizes may be old/outdated information.


I may not see pizza as fattening, but my waistline may beg to differ.

Well above?

Yeah I looked at petsmarts guide years ago when I first bought a veiled and just went by that knowledge this entire time. Didn't know, like I said.


Saying they were 12x12x24 was an obvious misnomer on my part, as Uri pointed out they don't even come in that size. No need to keep harping on it. I want to establish they are 16x16x30.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Thank you all for the help. When I get the money I will reorganize my entire space and try to make it work if I can. I need to get out of this apartment.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

All of my chameleons are using this size of cage and similar setups, bucket of sand with a water resevoir, chicken crate, and a stainless steel mesh above chicken crate at the bottom. Ballast placed 6-8 inches above the cages. Feeders provided at regular schedules with the correct supplements, water provided daily multiple times a day. I take very good care of them, the best I can the best I know how with the space I have. I can't afford larger cages than these 16x16x30 cages right now. But I understand what you're saying. As they grow and get larger the cage won't be enough space to accomodate them. I won't be in this apartment forever but I also don't know how long I'll be here. It's a studio space and it's small. If I had known they would all need 24x24x48 cages which is another 1/3rd of the size I wouldn't have bought 3. I have room to increase maybe 1 to 24x24x48 at this point, it really is a cramped space. I'm not trying to put my chameleons at risk or ruin their health or take bad care of them - I'm not even intentionally depriving them of the space, it's just a factor of my own circumstance. If I had known prior to buying them I'd need a 24x24x48 setup I wouldn't have purchased them in the first place, but it's a bit too late for that and I'm not planning on giving them away or selling them. My plan is to raise them proper. I just don't understand how it's literally going to kill them, given these are the cages I see many people use and have used and even was the standard in the past but clearly those standards have changed. I'm not able to afford larger cages, I also don't have the space.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

By the looks of it I can probably put a 24x24x48 cage in my closet with a ballast, there's room that could be made. I can move my work desk to the left about 12 inches and I'd have to move my gun safe somewhere else, and I could put another in that spot. I also have a space between my refrigerators and my TV, where my Christmas tree is, that looks like it could work. I should be able to get larger cages within 6 months or so.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

K

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Actually, pangeareptile offers financing, so I'll finance new cages and sell my old ones.

Consider I'm having to buy 3 new cages, and 6 new ballasts, it'll be at least half a grand, pricey but worth it. It just takes time to get that kind of money. Plus drip trays, double the amount of egg crate i bought the first time around, and mesh, so it's a lot.

 

[Uri]

Actually, pangeareptile offers financing, so I'll finance new cages and sell my old ones.

Consider I'm having to buy 3 new cages, and 6 new ballasts, it'll be at least half a grand, pricey but worth it. It just takes time to get that kind of money. Plus drip trays, double the amount of egg crate i bought the first time around, and mesh, so it's a lot.

I know that if you pay with PayPal some places let you pay in 4 and shop pay also gives you something like that too that’s what I did when I bought a baby crested gecko and gargoyle that came out to around $400

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

I know that if you pay with PayPal some places let you pay in 4 and shop pay also gives you something like that too that’s what I did when I bought a baby crested gecko and gargoyle that came out to around $400

Yeah it's what I'll have to do. It'll make it more within reach, it's just a rough holiday. I'll make it a point to get the right sizes as soon as I can.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

If anyone knows of a large reptile supplier that will have large quantities of the things I need that will also take paypal - please feel free to share. I may be able to do paypal credit and work it out that way.

 

[MissSkittles]

If anyone knows of a large reptile supplier that will have large quantities of the things I need that will also take paypal - please feel free to share. I may be able to do paypal credit and work it out that way.

https://www.reptilesupplyco.com/
I hesitate to recommend them as they always got something wrong with my order. They usually did make good, except the last time. I ordered a $20 item and got a $2 item instead and they completely ignored my many contacts to them and never corrected the situation. It sucked as I ordered a lot from them as their prices are good.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

https://www.reptilesupplyco.com/
I hesitate to recommend them as they always got something wrong with my order. They usually did make good, except the last time. I ordered a $20 item and got a $2 item instead and they completely ignored my many contacts to them and never corrected the situation. It sucked as I ordered a lot from them as their prices are good.

I'll give it a shot. I'm sure paypal would protect me with their resolution process. I'll keep my order to the bare minimum and get what else I can locally or online elsewhere. Thank you for coming back for a reply.