When do you stop and just let them go?

RescueMom

Avid Member
You may have heard it said "the faster I go, the behinder I get" (bad grammar, but it doesn't affect the meaning).

I have been trying to help my little Waldo and the more I do, the worse he is.

The RI infection is completely gone.

Another fecal was done and still no parasites.

Last week, after eating horn worms for a few days in a row he threw up. Literally gaging and heaving. I wouldn't have know it but my little camera recorded it.

He's pooping very regularly, so there's no obstruction.

Now he's on a medication for stomach issues.

Also last week I saw him try to shoot out his tounge to get a drop of water. It only went out a couple of inches, which is a big issues with MBD. This was my concern every day he wouldn't eat ?

Now he's on a liquid calcium supplement twice a day (IMO it's a little late).

Suddenly now, he's so dehydrated! His eyes are sunken in and they're all dark. I've seen severe dehydration before, but it took a year to get like this. Not a week!

He had another B12 shot to boost his appetite, but still nothing.

He sits and stares at his food, but won't attempt to eat it.

The cuts on his feet are better, but he's constantly slipping off his branches. It's painful to watch him because it's just so sad.

I'm sure he's stressed from all the medication and vet visits, he just wants to be left alone.

I don't believe in torturing an animal because WE want them to live. I think if they're clearly suffering, it's selfish and cruel to keep them alive for our benefit.

I don't want to keep doing this to him ?
 
Hi! I'm sorry your going through such a tough time with Waldo. IMHO, if an animal in my care is demonstrating a will to live (eating, drinking, etc.) and there's still hope for recovery, don't give up - as this too could pass. Even if there's chance for recovery but they're being stubborn and you need to help them with eating/drinking it's worth it to try and help them recover.

I'm not sure what the other details in this case are, but sunken eyes doesn't automatically mean dehydration. It could mean stress or something internally is bothering him. His urates would be a better indicator of hydration.

Just make sure you take care of yourself too! It isn't easy seeing an animal in your care have such a tough time, or see them decline.
 
Honestly i stop when the meds and "care" have them looking worse than a few hours before. Its mainly the force feeding and dehydration that does it for me. I can do the shots, put the liquid meds in the cheek with little rough handling. But once they start fighting tooth an nail to get solid food in or having to figure out how to win the fight to get a large enough amount of fluid in to either feed or hydrate, i just call it off. Sorry bud i tried.

Still you can try all sorts of tricks before you give up. Baby food with a bit of all-in-one powder. Different flavors of pediolite,boost, gatorade, etc. Try not using your hand to hold them, use a fluffy mit or a nice towel. Anything to make the medicating less stress. I have to give a cockatiel liquid heart meds every day. We figured out a system of throwing a small towel over it and wadding it up so it looks like baby yoda, and just popping the fluid in while it tries to kill the syringe. Works alot better than trying to catch and hold it with a pair of gloves.

But honestly unless they have a large infection or very brittle bones, i keep trying. I put them in a 10-20 gallon tank with a non loop stitch blanket, and a heating pad set for low so the body maintains 80f. It s a happy day when they start swallowing (not catching) food on their own.
 
I’m so sorry that you are both going thru all of this. Have you spoken to your vet about it? Most vets will be honest and level with you if you voice your concerns and feelings with him/her.
+1. Vets get this all the time, and some may be reluctant to be candid due to reactions from some clients when they are.

If the vet balks or hedges, ask him/her straight out, "What would you do if this were your pet?"
IME, this question can help. I've had to ask it many times, and I can't say I regret any of them.
 
Hi! I'm sorry your going through such a tough time with Waldo. IMHO, if an animal in my care is demonstrating a will to live (eating, drinking, etc.) and there's still hope for recovery, don't give up - as this too could pass.
Up until this morning, I would say his will to live was definitely there. That changed now. He won't get under his heat light or open his eyes, and he's just hanging by his tail, holding on to a branch in the back of his cage ?

Honestly i stop when the meds and "care" have them looking worse than a few hours before. Its mainly the force feeding and dehydration that does it for me. I can do the shots, put the liquid meds in the cheek with little rough handling. But once they start fighting tooth an nail to get solid food in or having to figure out how to win the fight to get a large enough amount of fluid in to either feed or hydrate, i just call it off. Sorry bud i tried.
Definitely looks worse after meds. Almost unrecognizable

I’m so sorry that you are both going thru all of this. Have you spoken to your vet about it? Most vets will be honest and level with you if you voice your concerns and feelings with him/her.
Thank you. I'm going to call the vet soon. I just don't want him (or me) put through any more stress. If he's going to pass, I'd rather him go here in his cage, rather than being stressed out at the vet. Of course I can't let him suffer like he obviously is. It's not right ?

Pictures are 2 weeks ago, and then today. Obviously not getting better
 

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+1. Vets get this all the time, and some may be reluctant to be candid due to reactions from some clients when they are.

If the vet balks or hedges, ask him/her straight out, "What would you do if this were your pet?"
IME, this question can help. I've had to ask it many times, and I can't say I regret any of them.

Good input on that. Thank you
 
Up until this morning, I would say his will to live was definitely there. That changed now. He won't get under his heat light or open his eyes, and he's just hanging by his tail, holding on to a branch in the back of his cage ?


Definitely looks worse after meds. Almost unrecognizable


Thank you. I'm going to call the vet soon. I just don't want him (or me) put through any more stress. If he's going to pass, I'd rather him go here in his cage, rather than being stressed out at the vet. Of course I can't let him suffer like he obviously is. It's not right ?

Pictures are 2 weeks ago, and then today. Obviously not getting better

He still looks pretty good. No high stress colors etc. The sunken in eyes, well they can do that themselves due to stress of fighting to be held. Im sure you have seen some puffing chams, the eyes are sucked in a lot of times.

But i think it may be time for a sick tank. maybe just a smooth rock and stick running across the bottom so hes not walking just on the towel. Then just keep him around 80f. You dont want a heat lamp or a very warm heating bad, as that can dehydrate since they will not move.
 
He still looks pretty good. No high stress colors etc. The sunken in eyes, well they can do that themselves due to stress of fighting to be held. Im sure you have seen some puffing chams, the eyes are sucked in a lot of times.

But i think it may be time for a sick tank. maybe just a smooth rock and stick running across the bottom so hes not walking just on the towel. Then just keep him around 80f. You dont want a heat lamp or a very warm heating bad, as that can dehydrate since they will not move.
Those colors are his cold colors, and his blue stripe is white ? . He won't warm up. We've been sitting outside, in Florida, for a while now. He's just slumped over my shoulder.

I'm waiting on a call back from the nurse. He wasn't like this yesterday, so I don't know what happened
 

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Those colors are his cold colors, and his blue stripe is white ? . He won't warm up. We've been sitting outside, in Florida, for a while now. He's just slumped over my shoulder.

I'm waiting on a call back from the nurse. He wasn't like this yesterday, so I don't know what happened

I can see, i assume the light colors are bascially sleeping colors. And they do turn "pal/lighter" under stress. But he has good weight on him. I would not try to force feed at this point. Just try to get in some fluids once a day.

Im not there with you, but i have chams shipped to me in much worse "weight".

I can only tell you to keep him around 80, and offer fluids with as little handling as possible. My guys are only fed once a week, and they could easily go 2 weeks and just be a bit more hungry.
 
I can see, i assume the light colors are bascially sleeping colors. And they do turn "pal/lighter" under stress. But he has good weight on him. I would not try to force feed at this point. Just try to get in some fluids once a day.

Im not there with you, but i have chams shipped to me in much worse "weight".

I can only tell you to keep him around 80, and offer fluids with as little handling as possible. My guys are only fed once a week, and they could easily go 2 weeks and just be a bit more hungry.

I'm not sure how much yours weigh, but he weighed 92 at the vet last week. He was 102 one week before. And he was more than that a month, so he's quickly fading.

I don't have a scale to weigh him here, but I'm sure he weighs less than 92 now.

I think the pics must not show the ridges in his tail or his head that looks like a skeleton ?

He's had some weird mucousy poop this morning. Up through yesterday that was all normal.

I guess that could be from medicine ? but I don't know.

I'm waiting to hear back from the vet. Of course she's in surgery all day today.
 
Has he had any labs drawn? Kidney function is always a concern with most meds. Hydration can help minimize the effects a little. Do they do subcutaneous fluids for chameleons?
 
Has he had any labs drawn? Kidney function is always a concern with most meds. Hydration can help minimize the effects a little. Do they do subcutaneous fluids for chameleons?
They could only get enough blood to check his uric acid and it was normal. And that was after the second attempt to get enough blood.

I was concerned with giving antibiotics without doing full range is blood work.

He was on baytril for the RI for 9 days.

Now he's on metoclopramide for his "gut" after vomiting up feeders last week.
He's on that plus calcium supplement, finally! (calcivet)
 
He's at the vet now. The doctor is going to check him and, unless it's too late , they're going to give him fluids ?
 
Where do you live? I might be able to recommend a really good chameleon vet. Another vet would probably be a good idea, as least a second opinion. He doesn’t look that bad. When they don’t feel well or old the muscles in their tongue get weak and they aren’t able to shoot their tongue. I’ve had to hand feed some of mine for years. Also, I don’t recommend hornworms for an ill chameleon. They often even hold on to the back of the throat in perfectly well chameleon.
 
They could only get enough blood to check his uric acid and it was normal. And that was after the second attempt to get enough blood.

I was concerned with giving antibiotics without doing full range is blood work.

He was on baytril for the RI for 9 days.

Now he's on metoclopramide for his "gut" after vomiting up feeders last week.
He's on that plus calcium supplement, finally! (calcivet)
So metoclopramide does have a side effect of fatigue and sedation in humans. I’m not sure if it acts the same in chameleons or even what a tired and sedated cham looks like, but do you think that may be why he looks so bad after his meds?
 
He's at the vet now. The doctor is going to check him and, unless it's too late , they're going to give him fluids.
Where do you live? I might be able to recommend a really good chameleon vet. Another vet would probably be a good idea, as least a second opinion. He doesn’t look that bad. When they don’t feel well or old the muscles in their tongue get weak and they aren’t able to shoot their tongue. I’ve had to hand feed some of mine for years. Also, I don’t recommend hornworms for an ill chameleon. They often even hold on to the back of the throat in perfectly well chameleon.

He was supposed to be 1 year old in July, or that's what I was told by the woman I got him from. I don't know how much I believe at this point.

He wasn't having any issues with his tongue until literally the past couple of weeks. I kept telling the vet my concern about him not eating and therfore not getting calcium, which results in mbd (my previous cham lost use of his tounge due to improper care before I took him).

I'm on the west coast, Weeki Wachee River actually, where the mermaids are.
We used to live in Clearwater and I had taken my previous cham to Blue Pearl in Tampa. Their only exotic pet specialist is in Clearwater now, but they won't see him unless his current vet gives a referral, which would basically mean she'd have to say she couldn't help him (do you know many doctors that admit that ?).

I did go to another vet in this area once, but she hadn't ever seen a Panther Chameleon before (she went out and Googled it!) and I had to explain to her about Calcium with and without D3 ?

When I took him to the vet earlier, he wasn't even moving. I didn't know if he was alive he was so still. Maybe the picture I'm posting are too good? I do know I've seen them in much worse condition for sure.

If there is another vet, I would be willing to travel, considering he comes home ?
 

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So metoclopramide does have a side effect of fatigue and sedation in humans. I’m not sure if it acts the same in chameleons or even what a tired and sedated cham looks like, but do you think that may be why he looks so bad after his meds?
You beat me to the punch! I was going to look up side effects, but keep getting side tracked.

He's been on it for 5 days now, and I know their metabolism is slow, but I would think if he were having issues from the medicine he would have shown signs before now, right? But who am I to say?

Yesterday I was gone and I checked on him with my camera (so glad I got that!). He was climbing all over, he got INSIDE his shooting gallery, then couldn't get back to the vine, but slowly slipped to the lower branch, then climbed back up the pothos. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen!

Then this morning he's slumped over on his feeder cup. I mean really??!! What is going on? Talk about sudden and drastic change?
 
He's at the vet now. The doctor is going to check him and, unless it's too late , they're going to give him fluids.


He was supposed to be 1 year old in July, or that's what I was told by the woman I got him from. I don't know how much I believe at this point.

He wasn't having any issues with his tongue until literally the past couple of weeks. I kept telling the vet my concern about him not eating and therfore not getting calcium, which results in mbd (my previous cham lost use of his tounge due to improper care before I took him).

I'm on the west coast, Weeki Wachee River actually, where the mermaids are.
We used to live in Clearwater and I had taken my previous cham to Blue Pearl in Tampa. Their only exotic pet specialist is in Clearwater now, but they won't see him unless his current vet gives a referral, which would basically mean she'd have to say she couldn't help him (do you know many doctors that admit that ?).

I did go to another vet in this area once, but she hadn't ever seen a Panther Chameleon before (she went out and Googled it!) and I had to explain to her about Calcium with and without D3 ?

When I took him to the vet earlier, he wasn't even moving. I didn't know if he was alive he was so still. Maybe the picture I'm posting are too good? I do know I've seen them in much worse condition for sure.

If there is another vet, I would be willing to travel, considering he comes home ?

This vet in St.Pete has been seeing chameleons for ten plus years. I know several keepers that go there.
Dr. Tracy Anderson, 7620 66th Street N ... 727-398-7601, St Petersburg, FL
 
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