Werner babies update -- not good

[lisa h]

So at only 3 days, I have already lost 3 babies. One freshly dead this morning, and two when I got home this afternoon. There are a few of them that go down to the bottom and just lie there. I can rouse them and they'll go back up a twig, but I don't want to stress out everyone by going in there all the time. Ample food, lighting, low temps and high humidity. All babies kept in seperate containers in the same bin. They can't see one another. I wonder if this is something that happens in the wild? A cham on the ground is certainly food for something else. I have two that I just roused back up, but they don't seem like they're going to make it -- it's like they've been down there too long. I did find my first poop today, but it was from one of the ones that didn't make it. So, the little guy was eating. Anyways, that's the update. I suspect that by tomorrow morning there will be 2 more that will be gone.

Constructive criticism always appreciated.

 

[Syn]

So sorry to hear, Lisa. I am sure you are doing what you can. Was this a first clutch?

 

[lisa h]

Yes, she was wc and I bought her already pregnant.

 

[lisa h]

... just found another one dead. Again, one of the ones that was spending it's time on the bottom. There's one more doing the same thing, so I expect it'll be gone by the end of the day. Interesting to note that the ones with the most contrast in their colours seem to be the most robust. Just an observation, so I don't know if it's means anything. There is another one that is very uniformly dark in colour, and I believe that was one of the ones that I had to help out of it's sac. A sad, but interesting experience.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Lisa, how sad! But, I'm sure you're doing that best that you can. how many do you have left?

 

[lisa h]

10 left, though I expect I will be down one more by the end of the day. Since there are so few people that breed these, it is really difficult to find out what is "normal".

 

[jannb]

How devastating Lisa. I am so sorry to hear this sad news. Wishing only the best for the rest of your little babies.

 

[Syn]

Lisa, just know all of your endeavors will help further any knowledge on the species. Even though you are losing some of the little ones, you are gaining experience and information.

Remember, if something happens, nature intended it to be that way.

 

[JaxyGirl]

10 left, though I expect I will be down one more by the end of the day. Since there are so few people that breed these, it is really difficult to find out what is "normal".

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the last remaining and hope that they find the will to make it..It must be soooo hard to watch the little things expire for it seems no reason. I really feel for you.

 

[lisa h]

Lisa, just know all of your endeavors will help further any knowledge on the species. Even though you are losing some of the little ones, you are gaining experience and information.

Remember, if something happens, nature intended it to be that way.

If it's due to nature, then I'm ok with that. If it's due to my error, then it's unforgivable.

 

[lisa h]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the last remaining and hope that they find the will to make it..It must be soooo hard to watch the little things expire for it seems no reason. I really feel for you.

It is hard to watch. I don't see them as a "project". They are living creatures capable of feeling. I do hope they are not suffering. Unfortunately, no way to tell.

 

[james L]

Sorry to hear you keep losing babies. From what I have gathered, its pretty normal to lose half to all baby werners. There a very difficult species to breed and raise in captivity. I spent around two years working with werners from 3 locales and had no luck getting any to drop babies. It sounds like you are doing everything you can for them. I hope you get at least one strong survivor. Goodluck and thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[laurie]

How awful to lose those babies. I am like you they are living creatures to whom we have a responsibility. You are doing all you can, and all anyone can tell you to do, so it is out of your control. I hope you have some strong babies.

 

[dartfrog]

Im so sorry to here about the ones that have passed Lisa. I know how your feeling as my last clutch of 3 R. Acuminatus babies didnt make it a couple of weeks ago think they were too premature & just too weak, this may be the same with your babies especially as she was gravid when you got her! I so hope the others do well for you! Heatherxxx

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Sorry for your loss. As she was wc and gravid. It could very well be the care or lack thereof that she expierenced during importation. A sad but very common occurrence thats causing the neo's to die. A lack of proper nutrition during pregnancy can and will cause weaker babies. Good luck with the remaining little ones...

 

[lisa h]

Thanks for your words everyone. I'm almost embarassed to post updates to tell of my failures. I am now down to 8, so lost 6 in total. From what I am gathering it could be possible to only have one live, or maybe none? Not comforting, but if that's the reality, then I can accept that. I just caught an escapee making a "run" for it, and I was so pleased that it had some spunk. I try not to bother them by checking on them too often, but if I catch one on the bottom I get it moving back to a branch or leaf. If they're at the bottom too long they don't come back up, but if they're up for a while they seem ok. I don't know. I guess feeding and lighting properly, and keeping temps and humidity at correct levels is all I can do. Dammit! Again, I do appreciate hearing from you. And, TPM, I appreciate what you say about the importation issues. I didn't really think of that, as I took excellent care of her once she got here, and thought that would be enough. Btw, after checking in on 2 weak ones around midnight last night and finding them dead, I have not lost any today. Two looking on the weak side right now, but so far they're hanging on.

 

[kinyonga]

Don't kick yourself too hard....this happens so often with babies from WC's. I hope the rest will be okay now.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Yeah just getting a gravid wc female acclimated on arrival is a great feat Lisa. So dont get too down on yourself. If you can save a few thats just a bonus.

 

[lisa h]

Yeah just getting a gravid wc female acclimated on arrival is a great feat Lisa. So dont get too down on yourself. If you can save a few thats just a bonus.

Thank you. Mom is doing really well, and has no fear of me. It took her a couple of weeks, but now she comes to the front of the enclosure when I come by (more quickly if she sees a feeding cup in my hand LOL). She is very docile and sweet. I don't handle her, but she has climbed over my hand on a few occasions if I've been in there.

I found another dead baby this morning, and was surprised to find one in mom's enclosure, dead, stuck to a leaf. That would have been #15, and it would have been in there since last Thursday without food. Poor thing.

Right now I have seven. One is looking kind of "iffy" right now, but I have one in particular that's looking like a tough guy. As always, fingers crossed.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I would say if you can get em past the first 2wks thats the critical stage. At least with other species Ive raised from the egg. Most of the weaker individuals usually perish in the first week or so. Ive never had werners though so Im going by panthers and veileds.