Value of nosy mitsio faly's?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bechsgaard, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. bechsgaard

    bechsgaard New Member

    Hello, i decided im going to breed my male nosy faly with one of my female nosy mitsios, i was wondering how much do you think the babies would be worth, of course females wouldnt be much im guessing 200, but what about males?
     
  2. tdotcham

    tdotcham New Member

    they would both probably be worth more pure breed.
     
  3. Olimpia

    Olimpia Biologist & Ecologist

    I wouldn't know either. My faly cross guy would have been worth $185 when I got him as a baby. I've seen common locale crosses going for $200, on average, perhaps that mix could go for $250-300. I'm not sure, though.

    I personally would get them each a mate of the same locale. Not because I'm against crosses but because we don't have very many of those locales in captivity, it would be a shame to not get more pure individuals first.
     
  4. bechsgaard

    bechsgaard New Member

    i agree, but i dont have the space or enough cash to get a male mitsio, if anyone wanted to breed their male with my female mitsio, i would be glad to. but for now i am very curious on both the colorations, and the value. I am a business, and i have a personal ethical rule, not to breed the S**t out of my females (more than 2 times a year). Right now The only female i have that is ready to breed (in 2 months) is the mitsio, but i'd like to make a little money.
     
  5. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    Personally, I know of very few people who make money from breeding, regardless of species(mammal or otherwise)
    Someone who isn't looking to better the breed and just looking to make cash is what we(horse people) call backyard breeders. Do you know the lines of your Chameleon? Health of parents, pureness of your female?.
    Otherwise to me they are just a muddled chameleon, unpapered horse or dog. And to me not worth much because it would be hard for me to buy something that the health/lineage sn't a main concern
    But this is just my opinion, and nothing more
     
    ferretinmyshoes likes this.
  6. DavidBuchan

    DavidBuchan New Member

    For making money it just depends how much you can sell them for, which is a question I can't you help with..........
    but bettering the breed? That implies you can know what is better for the genetic health of the species, which pretty much requires omnipotence, not just knowing the lineage (for evidence of the damage to a species that trying to keep a breed 'pure' can do then look no further than pedigree dogs health problems or the Nazi eugenics programs :eek:). As far as my opinion goes then if the individuals are healthy and you have a market for babies then you might as well aim for a profit. 'Pure', 'certificated', 'pedigree' chams will make more money, but in my humble opinion it's that profit, and not the health of the population which is the main motivation for keeping a breed pure........you can be cynical about the motivations from both angles........
     
  7. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    Dave, im not cynical at all. In my years of animal husbandry I've seen alot of bad breeding. And just for profit has another name...puppy mills
    But again, I am older than most here and come from a different way of thinking, doing your best and breeding for the best. I am like everyone else here, entitled to my opinion. And I don't speak it often here.
    But someone that knows little of chameleon husbandry thinking of breeding just to make a buck seems wrong. (Not referring to this op)
     
  8. Olimpia

    Olimpia Biologist & Ecologist

    I disagree. There are dog breeders, for example, that will breed just to breed. Then there are others, like the responsible ones, that will NOT breed a dog that has any sort of genetic problem. My sheltie comes certified that no one in her line has collie eye or any other genetic problems that usually plague the breed. This is bettering the breed.

    Following along the same lines, by bettering (or maintaining) a species you would be aiming to breed the best specimens of the species, keeping health and lineage well in mind. I saw this a lot in gecko breeding, that people would breed two geckos they had just because they had them, but they might have had spinal deformities or something like that. That is not doing anything for the species as a whole in captivity.

    That's what's meant with bettering the breed, not saying anything other than being responsible, doing things well, taking care in WHAT you breed, not just how you breed it.
     
    Supergirl likes this.
  9. DavidBuchan

    DavidBuchan New Member

    Ah, but I am cynical, everywhere that money is involved.......'cos I don't care too much for money - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8zx68HENIA lol:D. I don't disagree with your principles at all, just adding a note of caution that in a captive population we actually can't be certain of the long-term consequences of pedigree breeding........

    Of course, again I understand the principles......you can see though that there would not be the 'genetic problems that usually plague the breed' in the first place if there were not breeders artificially selecting for certain desired traits. Natural selection has done life on Earth proud for billions of years, and even the most responsible breeders don't know what potential side effects their choices will have. Bettering the breed is a lofty aim, but all we can really do with our artificial selection in a captive population is hope not to screw it up too badly.......that's the only point I wanted to make, jmho
     
  10. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    Thank you Olimpia, you were able to put into words what I was thinking!
    Well done gurl!!
     
  11. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    David... after rereading your original post, did you say my opinion was the same as Nazi Eugenics??????
    Be careful my friend, that is a line I am asking you to not cross with me.
    It might be in the best interest of the forums if the mods cut this thread short. I will pm David with how I feel about his correlation of my opinion to one of, if not the most horrific atrocities mankind has ever placed on itself
     
  12. DavidBuchan

    DavidBuchan New Member

    No, no no, not at all - I wouldn't say that subtly if I were going to say it, and I know you better than that anyway.
    I followed it straight up with this :-
    Just taking an example to the extreme, no implication meant at all.....really, just over-making my point, sorry :eek:
     
  13. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    Thank you babycakes!!
    You lowered my bp! With your reply :p
     
  14. Texas Panther Man

    Texas Panther Man New Member

    As a faly and mitsio breeder. I can say that those crosses wont be worth any moe than any other cross. Just cuz its half faly and mitsio doesn't make it special its still a cross.

    Your going to have a hard time selling any females and good luck selling crosses for 300
    It aint gonna happen.
     
  15. DavidBuchan

    DavidBuchan New Member

    I'd hate to think I offended anyone like that, especially you :)......but I am known for taking my philosophising to logical extremes without taking emotions into account.....so thanks for letting me get away with it.......
    One of my most favourite authors (Aldous Huxley) was all in favour of eugenics for humans until he saw the logical results of the idea, and I don't know if you've heard of the kennel club (a British dog breeding authority). They actually do operate on Nazi-like ideals of 'purity' and it does contribute to the ill-health of the genepool.........I try to stay as emotionally uninvolved as possible because it's dogs not people, but I'm with the hippyish chili peppers on the issue - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM8wmSJU6mk mix it up until there are no pedigrees........

    Sorry for getting this thread so far off topic.........have not had much sleep recently, getting too deep for my own good, :D
     
  16. SonTigerPantherCham

    SonTigerPantherCham New Member

    not only have I heard of the Kennel Club, I actively participated in it :D
    8 years ago I finished my show career with 2 French Bulldogs becoming Champions. yes, I was one of THOSE goofy people, I just dressed in cool clothes, hair, jewels, and not sensible shoes!!

    Part of the problem with canine breeding pools is exactly what we are talking about, too many people breeding indiscriminately just for a buck. Not because they have healthy bloodlines.

    Im off my soapbox now lovey,
    and I too am sorry for this thread taking a left turn
     
  17. moviemanmania

    moviemanmania Avid Member

    There's noting wrong with a cross/hybrid panther, however, from a business perspective, pure bred locals will be worth more and easier to sell for your desired rates. I've seen some very beautiful crosses but I personally would stick with pure bred locals as years of evolution is what created them in the first place. I suppose its honoring mother nature to breed within the same local and not cross. This is how I see it at least...
     
  18. bechsgaard

    bechsgaard New Member

    trust me im aware of the very little money in the breeding business, hence why i need abit more, lol. And when did i say anything about unhealthy bloodlines, i really dont see how crossbreeding has anything to do with it as they are the SAME SPECIES, they just live in different areas, hundreds of years ago, the falys probably originated from a pure white, a red, and a blue locale, and that came out. all of my chameleons and animals are of good health. I simply want to breed her, because i have no one else to breed her with
     
  19. DavidBuchan

    DavidBuchan New Member

    Exactly, a Chameleon breeder needs to breed Chameleons, and they are the same species ( though you could say a different 'race' ). If the individuals are in good health and not immediately related there is absolutely no reason not to go for it. Racial integration for all species is my hippy ideal, and forget foolish ideas of local purity.
    That being said, you are in business and in competition so your profit margins are relevant. Can't judge you for that, just the way of the world. If you think you can move your units at a reasonable return then you ought to do it I guess. Look up other breeders prices, add up the overheads, lol
    I'm planning on breeding mine next year and I expect it to cost me money because everything I enjoy doing does :D
     
  20. jessica

    jessica Avid Member

    This is what caught my eye. Babies take up way more space and cost alot more then a male mitso. You are going to do what you want but just to give you an idea check this thread out

    It may not be spot on but it will give you a idea of cost.
    https://www.chameleonforums.com/cost-raising-69-baby-veileds-18467/

    https://www.chameleonforums.com/much-profit-breeding-19658/

    When it comes to space you should split the babies up into seperate bins. When they are young you can keep more in one tub but they grow QUICK and you will split them up according to size.
    https://www.chameleonforums.com/lets-see-some-baby-set-ups-47634/


    Here is another thread that is pretty good too https://www.chameleonforums.com/some-thoughts-breeding-2612/
     

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