UPDATE...and Im mad as h@%!

[SonTigerPantherCham]

ok, my last thread on this subject
Some of you read my thread entitled: Indie pet shop last week

I went in to check today (my 5th visit in 6 days, and I live 35 miles away!) and the gal who works for her said the owner had an "expert" in Chameleon Husbandry come in and access the situation. IMO it was the homeless guy outside her shop, but oh well!
Here is what the "expert" had to say:
first off they are fine
Chameleons do not need humidity
Do not feed silks or any other type of worms cause they are too fat
do not supplement crickets, carrots are all they need
do not dust crix with anything
the compacts are fine
the substrate is fine
leaving adult crix in the cage with a 3mo old Jackson is fine..all the time cause she cant possibly eat one!

so as you can sensse by now I was fuming, called ASPCA they said they cant do anything.
I had offered to give her half of my silks because I cant go thru all that I get.
gave her the info sheet the Kammers give to all there owners when purchasing one of their Chams. says the info is incorrect!! the gall !!!

all I can do is purchase them, which as stated she will just buy more
Never go into that shop again
and do all I can to let the public, my friends etc to PLEASE not shop there
ok, im done, this took up like a whole page
thank you for letting me rant
although I would like to know the name of her so called "expert"
oh, well
anne

 

[ChameleonNerd]

I woulda opened a can of whoopass

 

[Ekaj13]

Don't forget to use alternative means to impact the business. Google usually has reviews for businesses. Open a BBB complaint. If you post the business's name on these threads google will probably pick it up, etc. Etc.

 

[Thompson]

Could you possibly ask if you can come in and take care of the chameleons and provide for them because obviously those people are ignorant, close minded and stubborn. The only hope for the chameleons right now is you. You're right, do not buy the chameleons because the owner will know now that all she has to do is buy chameleons and not take care of them and some time a person like you will come in and "save" them. It's horrible but the only way to stop this from happening is if people stick to buying from reputable breeders.

 

[Geckoxp]

I can completely relate to this as I ran into the same situation with a mall petshop owner who had a veiled chameleon and a bearded dragon in an exo terra cage at the same time.

Watched as to pet store "helpers" were trying to force the veiled to drink and wondering why it was not doing well. I asked them what experience they had in keeping the animals and they decided to take their frustration out on me and yelling along with the store owner...needless to say this store tries to pass on puppies for over $1-2K each as well so you know where their mindset is.

Its a sad situation and I feel for you...reptiles dont get the same respect as Mr. Snuggles the $2K terrier that has the attitude of the devil...

 

[CalaMala]

I woulda opened a can of whoopass

I would have opened the cages and the front door....
It never ceases to amaze me how many ignorant a$$ people are out there whom actually get belligerent with people who are educated.... really??? REALLY???

Yeah, and I didn't inhale either!! lol

 

[Leroux2008]

Omg... that is freaking horrible.... I woulda printed out the info on how to take care of Chameleons on each website I could find...so I could prove that it wasnt just one place saying this is what u have to do..... She is ignorant. I feel bad for the chams =[ I really hope someone soon are able to save them..... but it is horrible their will be more poor chams...

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

each day I went in until today, I spent over an hour just misting and allowing them drink. the first day it was an hour and a half and I barely made it to work on time. I took the 1.5 yo panther outside just give give him some real sun, even let him climb around on the ficus out front (they dont spray)

thank you for the suggestions, I gotta cool my jets with this or I might get myself arrested!! (joking!)

im gonna look into the BBB, flyers, posting a bad, really bad post on google, her website and anywhere else I can

again, thank you and Im sorry for ranting, I dont really know anyone else who would care as ya'll do.

 

[Leroux2008]

O I wouldnt be sorry for ranting. ^^ I know what you feel.... everyone thinks im retarded for liking my reptiles as I do..... Gee I even care about my feeders XD

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

I know right?!
My silks were delivered at work yesterday and I got all excited !. the other women I work with looked at me like I was insane.
Told them I had to run home cause I didnt want them sitting around all day

 

[Leroux2008]

To me personally.... I think everyone else is crazy XD My cricket eggs finallly hatched and I was like YESSSS and I was telling everyone... they were like EWWwww ... -_- They have NO clue how long I have been waiting for these guys to hatch... Ive been through several batches of adult crickets before these decided to hatch..
Ya take EXTRA care of ur silks cause mine died within a matter of days =[ Idk if it was from the chow I put in there with them or from the light I forgot on.. maybe both.... their so easy to kill

 

[sdheli420]

Could you possibly ask if you can come in and take care of the chameleons and provide for them because obviously those people are ignorant, close minded and stubborn. The only hope for the chameleons right now is you. You're right, do not buy the chameleons because the owner will know now that all she has to do is buy chameleons and not take care of them and some time a person like you will come in and "save" them. It's horrible but the only way to stop this from happening is if people stick to buying from reputable breeders.

i hate to see this..and especially when they are soo stubborn that what they think is right is the only way(the only thing consistant in their husbandry is constantly dying animals or malnurished sick animals..!!!!!)..i can say this atleast..reptile city in sandiego..they actually have healthy animals..and take advice..i mentioned humidity to one of the workers..next day there was mist droplets in the cages( they obviously where misting more frequently..and everytime i go i give them a few bucks and i walk away with like 250 crickets..they DO NOT HOLD BACK!! its nice..not like pet kingdom..they do hook it up however its large and some employees are too young to really care( they do have some specialists however)


overall i hate to hear about this..it angers me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable like watching people die in war videos...such sweet lil animals..i feel this way because i just succsessfully saved a spiny tail lizard from death (local here but rare..it was 12 at night..lizard rawls out of the grass all night time outside wet and cold, desert lizaed mind you, and has what looks like no eyes, just bloody circles..well long to short..saved with proper care..and i thing she is pregnant!!!! such a plus!!..i may let her lay, and incubate them , raise un till release!


stay strong..maybe if we all send out an angry letter, they will double think their opinions on the keeping and care of exotic reptiles such as chameleons..


p.s. here the liz i saved..just had to..thus why i cant stand crappy shops that are just murder bins for healthy reptiles..


the pics are her, with healed eyes..about 80 percent..she blinked when i was taking pics..a good thing!!..keep in mind her eyes would not open for two weeks..three days of water, saline, and gutloaded crix mashed into a syringe(a bit much for a non cham, but i cant let anything die when its healthy and can still have a full life..)

 

[allencg101]

did he also tell you chameleons are mammals

 

[allencg101]

their so easy to kill

Killing is against the law leroux!!!

 

[pssh]

Why not bring in some of your books on chameleons as well as many (and I do mean a lot) of care sheets. It's harder to say that something is inaccurate when there are several different sources that have published material on the subject.

 

[Leroux2008]

lol Allen! Don't bleep out the rest of what I was talking about XD *accidently killing silks* XD Not purposely -_-

 

[Leroux2008]

Why not bring in some of your books on chameleons as well as many (and I do mean a lot) of care sheets. It's harder to say that something is inaccurate when there are several different sources that have published material on the subject.

ya thats exactly what I was thinking.... if you can provide Several things saying the same... how can it be THAT inaccurate.. ==p

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

I did think about bringing in my laptop and make her come into CF. I would hope everything members have to say here would change her mind and kick this suppossed "expert" out of her store.
The Kammers are conservative, careful and very successful owners and breeders. I really thought their care sheet would be enough. But you guys are absolutely right, the more info the merrier.

Its just getting hard to go in there, I could hardly look at them today. I have lost 2 full nights of sleep this week worrying about them.

Im up for doing ALL suggestions

 

[Elizadolots]

and everytime i go i give them a few bucks and i walk away with like 250 crickets.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with that experience. When I commented on it here once there was a bit of disbelief.

SonTigerPantherCham, definitely get all your friends involved. Don't tell them to avoid the store, tell them to go in. And complain loudly about the conditions of the chameleons. If you have a local vet for your chameleons, see if you can enlist both the doctor and the staff to go in and loudly offer their professional opinions on the hideous care they see.

I would suggest this before engaging in a campaign that could actually harm their business. Mom and Pop businesses need support if they are to remain available as an alternative to "big box" stores. You might even mention that to them after a few days of intervention. If you and your friends start trashing their rep online, it could do serious damage to their business.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

Elizadolots,
ok, I can do that...maybe tone it down a bit.
I really like asking a Vet to go in, and friends whether they are reptile people or not. You would have to be blind to realize that they have NO water, drip or otherwise. and havent for about a month now, except for what I have given them.
I have spoken to Liddy and she commented on the dehydration and organ failure at some point, in the not to distand future.

I couldnt even tell you if the baby Jackson has had anything to eat, all that is in the cage are adult crix