Tell me the truth!!

SweetPea

New Member
My local reptile store said my 9 moth old veiled cham has MBD I have done everything mention on the forum from the start he said she may have had it from the start. Is this painful and can she live a good life with MBD. The guy said I should have her put to sleep. I hate to do that but if she is in pain I would hate to see her suffer. me and my kids love her, her name is SweetPea.
 

Shelby

New Member
I have a bearded dragon diagnosed with advanced MBD last Dec. 7, 2005. He was on liquid calicum drops for awhile until he got use of his arms and legs again. Now he gets along just fine and eats like a horse!

Does your veil even show symptoms and do you dust her food with calicum? What's her lighting situation? Is she still eating and drinking?
 

SweetPea

New Member
Yes I do dust her food she eats crickets and superworms. I had recently bought her a bigger cage and she kept falling for the top they suggested going back to her smaller cage. I have a 100 watt heat lamp with a full spectrum uvb light in her screen cage. I don't know of any reptile vets in this area but I will check on it more. What else do you suggest? yes she is eating but not as much as usual, and she is drinking
 

LunaC

New Member
A 9-month old that keeps falling from the top is not good. She must look pretty bad for someone from a reptile store (assuming he is actually knowledgeable) to suggest euthanasia.
At this point I think a vet visit is totally necessary.

That said, it would still be good to know a little more history..how long have you had her? What is her eating/drinking/hydration schedule? How often do you dust her prey and with what? Do you gutload and with what?
How old is the UVB bulb you're using? (They need to be changed out every 5-7 months) Also what are the temps under the 100-watt? How close is her basking area to the heat lamp? What was she kept in before you moved her to a larger cage?
Is she able to climb, walk, maintain balance or grasp at all or is she on the bottom of her enclosure unable to support her own weight?
You said she is still eating and drinking...do you SEE her drink? Are her limbs bowed and swollen or a nice uniform straight with V-shaped "elbows"?
Even if chams can be born with MBD, (re:have it "from the start" as you were told), MBD is progressive and the result of poor husbandry.
Sorry about all the questions...I'm a curious creature and cham education is never-ending! :)
 
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SweetPea

New Member
I have had her since Sept.t of 05 she was very small I gut load with vegies and use the calicum dust every time I feed, the store suggested I do change her uv light every 6 months. her limbs are swollen but she can hold on well. She also has the soft jaw. She can maintain her weight when she is standing. She was in a smaller screen cage to start. her basking area is very close to the light I will check the temp today and post again also I will post a picture as well. hope you guys can help :eek: also how do I find a vet in my area?
 

SweetPea

New Member
Sticky tongue farms Miner-all it does have vitamin D3 4,400.00 I.U.
I have an appointment with a vet in Palm Desert Friday so hopefully I can also get some calcium drops
 

Drake

New Member
Sorry to say, but it looks like Sweat Pea has MBD. His lower jaw looks soft, and limbs are swollen. Supplementing everyday can also be bad. Its best to do it only once or maybe twice a week. Good luck with everything, and keep us updated with what the vet has to say.
 

SweetPea

New Member
yes I know she does also that is why she is going to the vet. I don't know what I can do about it other than make her as happy as I can. Do you know if MBD is painful and what quality of life I can expect for her??
 

Drake

New Member
From what I understand, Chams with MBD can't recover fully:(, but can be stopped from getting any worser. I'm not sure though if its painfull or not. Sorry, I'm sure others will have better info.
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
The front legs show definite signs of MBD. As Drake said, the MBD can be stopped but the current damage in most cases can not be fixed. Bones can strengthen in time and I have read many stories of chameleons living years after such events. However, fractures and curvatures of the bone will usually remain. As to the pain they may be suffering from this, I am really not sure. This is something you can discuss with your veterinarian.

Should you euthanize your chameleon? I think this is something else you should talk to your veterinarian about. However, leaving the decision to your chameleon may be the best choice. As long as your cham is fighting to live, you should be doing everything you can to help it. Please keep us updated.
 

lele

Avid Member
ditto

that slightly open mouth does not look right and you can see an extra bend in that left leg - may have broken it. Hopefully your vet will be able to get blood for Ca levels before giving anything. Let us know what s/he says
 

SweetPea

New Member
Well I just got back from the vet with mine and it seem her life will be cut short. She has MBD but the vet said I did everything right. Her suggestion is to put her down, I did take her home and need some time to think. She spent an hour talking about things we could do but it would only prolong her life by a few month and they may be painfull months at that. This also effect the muscles next I would see problems with feeding her not being able to retract her tounge and more that likley heart failure. I can not stand to see someone I love suffer.. I feel sooo sad!!!:( :( :( :( :(
 

Heika

New Member
If she doesn't have problems with her tongue now, and you arrest the progression of the disease, won't she continue to be able to use her tongue? We see pictures of chameleons all the time that have suffered MBD at some point in their past that are healthy and active.

I am surprised that your vet said you did everything right. Advanced MBD doesn't happen when everything is right. It isn't a disease that just.. happens.

Heika
 

SweetPea

New Member
If you have a pair of chameleons that are breeding you and they are not well taken care of you may end up with babies that are very low in calicum to begin with and then to sit in a pet store with out the right care, more problems. I told the vet all that I had done and she felt all was well in my care. but thanks
 

Heika

New Member
While I don't doubt that early care will have an affect on the later health of a chameleon, it seems that you may need to consider your husbandry as well. Considering that you purchased the chameleon when it was 2 months old, and have had it for 7 months, your husbandry should count for something.

Since you are inquiring about a good breeder, it sounds like you are planning to purchase another chameleon. I would hate to think that you will turn around and have the same problems with another chameleon again.

Can you tell us what kind of lights you are using? On another forum, a person had a cham they kept under one of those ESU slimline fixtures, but never removed the plastic cover. The chameleon developed MBD.

Are you dusting every day with miner all I? If so, there is a disorder related to oversupplementing that is similar to MBD.

Heika
 

Jam

New Member
From what I have been told about Hermie, it is possible for them to gain their bone density back given the right care and medication. Currently he is on calcium gluconide (sp?) every 12 hours, and we are considering calcitonin to almost completely stop the body's ability to pull calcium out of the bones. But even though he can gain his bone density back, it is likely that his bones will still heal crocked because we didn't put pins in his legs.

Hermie today began hunting down his own silk worms, and I think that I have seen a lot of improvement with him -- his bones are very slowly starting to knit back together and he is becoming stronger and climbing around some more.

Hermie didn't have a soft jaw yet, but he did end up with four broken legs. It happened to him right after I put him into his new "big boy" cage also. Now we have all climbing things removed and him in a 20 gallon aquarium with blankets and now some plastic green plants on the bottom for him to "hide" in. Herm's legs hardly showed up on xray two weeks ago, but it hadn't yet affected his spinal column.

It looks to me like your chameleon's leg(s) are broken. If you want to try to save him I would suggest taking away anything that he can climb on -- it will just make him more likely to fall and break more legs and cause more damage, bc he is likely to fall off.

Every case and chameleon is different and should be treated as such. For us, Hermie wanted to keep living in my opinion -- he kept asking for food by opening his mouth and letting us drop wax and silk worms in -- if he had wanted to die all that he had to do was stop eating and I would have put him down. In fact when I took him to the vet I had every intention of putting him out of his misery, but they were the ones that thought that we could save him.

It's hard to know how reptiles feel pain. To a human broken bones would mean pain, but they don't really know if pain reception is the same in reptiles. Hermie didn't act like he was in very much pain, but the vets put him on pain medication for a week also.

Good luck
 
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