Strange Marking / Burn? Discolouration?

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles said…”you’re teaching me well”… You’re a quick learner!

You (and a few others who I won’t name in case I miss someone) have taken a lot of pressure off me, because you are all quick learners and do things like husbandry checks. I have appreciated it all!

 

[Katy52]

Hello and happy weekend! @kinyonga @MissSkittles

Unfortunately the skin issue on my little kiwi doesn’t seem to be getting better, although I know chameleons heal in strange ways so I would HUGELY appreciate your advice on next steps.

To note: he is eating / drinking / pooping as normal, no changes in his activity levels or sleep patterns.

Attached is a photo I took this morning ‘Week 3’ the white colouring seems to have spread and is more defined.

- Would a burn behave this way?

- What colourations appear as chameleons heal in general? Is black good? White bad?

- Given the way this has evolved over three weeks, what cause do you think is likely and should be considered by the vet?

The last advise I received from the vet was a biopsy involving full sedation as they were very unsure. I’m wary of the stress this will cause him, is it justified in you opinion?

Thank you again! I really value his forum and all the wonderful people who want chams to have the best in life

Katy

 

[elizaann2]

@CalamityCrow didn't you deal with something similar? Or am I making that up?

 

[MissSkittles]

Oh! Well, it’s definitely not a bruise or other type of trauma as it would have healed by now. I’m not really sure how various types or degrees of burns heal on reptiles, but based on what I know of us humans, I would think it would be starting to lift at the edges or show some type of change. The only change I do see is a very slight spreading out of the white on the area on the left side. The only thing that I can think it may be now would be some type of fungal growth. Let’s see what @kinyonga thinks though as my knowledge and experience is nothing compared to hers. She would also know better than I the type of biopsies that can be done on chameleons.

 

[kinyonga]

Wish I had a definite answer for you. The only way to know for sure what it is IMHO is to see a vet unfortunately and get a biopsy done. I’m not a vet and although I can figure out what some of these things are, I can’t ever be sure and some things I can explain. Sorry I’m not of more help.
If it’s not growning/spreading, it’s of less concern usually.

 

[CalamityCrow]

@CalamityCrow didn't you deal with something similar? Or am I making that up?

I did - it was with my first cham. I got a biopsy done and unfortunately he died a few days later. The results later confirmed that he had a form of cancer already deeply rooted in his guts. I've attached a picture of the bump on his leg, and the biopsy results.

Unfortunately he passed too fast for me to have really been able to do anything about it. :/ the cancer was deep in his system and that was sort of the last visual that it'd made it to the outside.

I really hope your cham isn't suffering something similar. If I had to do it again, I probably wouldn't have done the biopsy on the off chance that the biopsy did something to trigger his downturn. But you never know.

 

[Katy52]

Hello! @kinyonga @MissSkittles @Beman

I hope you guys are all well and happy new year!

Little kiwi’s skin saga is still ongoing, I thought I would update the forum incase it helps similar situations etc

The vet did a surgical biopsy of the discoloured skin on his side, all tests showed no sign of burns/trauma/fungal or parasite. Blood tests and an xray also showed nothing abnormal.

The only diagnosis they offered was the following:

I have been discussing Kiwi's case with friends of mine - one who manages a very large breeding colony of chameleons and she has seen similar lesions to his fairly commonly which seems to start from a cricket or locust or insect bite, combined with low-grade vitamin A deficiency.

Panther chameleons need more vitamin A than veiled chameleons which eat some vegetation so even with gut loading prey they could benefit from additional supplementation. We supplement panthers 2 X a week with the holland and barrat liquid vitamin A capsules - 3300iu softgel caps, poke a hole in it with a needle and squeeze out one drop on the skin and let it soak in. every second week you can also put a drop in the mouth or on a piece of food but don't do any more than that as you can oversupplement too!

I would clean the skin using some tamodine diluted 1 part tamodine to 10 parts water and gently clean with a cotton bud once a day, then gently wipe this off apply the vitamin A drop.

Kiwi has never had crickets/locusts. I give him the Repashy vitamin regime so unless that brand has a below recommended dose of Vit A in it then I don’t see how this can be an issue? Unless it is actually not suitable for panthers?!

Attached is a photo of the area today, 5 months after the discolouration first appeared.

The tip of his casque / back spikes have turned white recently (100% not the start of a shed). They first turned black when this side discolouration appeared (see photo named day 12) unsure it’s related or coincidence?!

Any further thoughts on what the case might be or the vets vitamin A suggestion would be much appreciated!

He is a bit low in appetite & energy but I have always noticed that with my chams in winter.

Thank you in advance for your time & help! I hugely appreciate this forum and want to do the best for my little guy.

Katy

Photos attached:
‘Day 12’ how it presented initially
‘5 months’ how it looks today

 

[Beman]

Hello! @kinyonga @MissSkittles @Beman

I hope you guys are all well and happy new year!

Little kiwi’s skin saga is still ongoing, I thought I would update the forum incase it helps similar situations etc

The vet did a surgical biopsy of the discoloured skin on his side, all tests showed no sign of burns/trauma/fungal or parasite. Blood tests and an xray also showed nothing abnormal.

The only diagnosis they offered was the following:

I have been discussing Kiwi's case with friends of mine - one who manages a very large breeding colony of chameleons and she has seen similar lesions to his fairly commonly which seems to start from a cricket or locust or insect bite, combined with low-grade vitamin A deficiency.

Panther chameleons need more vitamin A than veiled chameleons which eat some vegetation so even with gut loading prey they could benefit from additional supplementation. We supplement panthers 2 X a week with the holland and barrat liquid vitamin A capsules - 3300iu softgel caps, poke a hole in it with a needle and squeeze out one drop on the skin and let it soak in. every second week you can also put a drop in the mouth or on a piece of food but don't do any more than that as you can oversupplement too!

I would clean the skin using some tamodine diluted 1 part tamodine to 10 parts water and gently clean with a cotton bud once a day, then gently wipe this off apply the vitamin A drop.

Kiwi has never had crickets/locusts. I give him the Repashy vitamin regime so unless that brand has a below recommended dose of Vit A in it then I don’t see how this can be an issue? Unless it is actually not suitable for panthers?!

Attached is a photo of the area today, 5 months after the discolouration first appeared.

The tip of his casque / back spikes have turned white recently (100% not the start of a shed). They first turned black when this side discolouration appeared (see photo named day 12) unsure it’s related or coincidence?!

Any further thoughts on what the case might be or the vets vitamin A suggestion would be much appreciated!

He is a bit low in appetite & energy but I have always noticed that with my chams in winter.

Thank you in advance for your time & help! I hugely appreciate this forum and want to do the best for my little guy.

Katy

Photos attached:
‘Day 12’ how it presented initially
‘5 months’ how it looks today

So looking through this thread my guess would be he was bit by an insect causing the discoloration. I will say it looks much better now. All testing was done to rule out other issues so your in the clear there.

I do not know which supplements exactly you are using or in what frequency. Perhaps share images of your supplements and how you are using them. But my personal opinion on the Vitamin A being used in that way is don't do it. Vitamin A can be overdosed very easily. Panthers do not need it more than 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Them saying to give oral Vitamin A from a soft gel cap can be dangerous. Talk about adding to your problems. This is all you will end up doing. Now putting it on the skin I have no idea. I know Vitamin A on the skin in humans can help with things but I have never heard of this being done with chameleons.

Your boy looks great physically. Weight and tone look perfect. I would not stress the discoloration and perhaps it will go away on its own. But chams can deal with discoloration when an injury occurs such as bite and even getting their blood drawn. A blood draw can cause a tail to discolor.