Solid Snake
Avid Member
Outstanding.
I couldnt get one for either of mine today!
Ive got my bag ready though
Stella's Vet Visit
- Thread starter Solid Snake
- Start date
Outstanding.
I couldnt get one for either of mine today!
Ive got my bag ready though
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
Outstanding.
I couldnt get one for either of mine today!
Ive got my bag ready though
Be patient young grasshoppa! Lol
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Thanks!It usually looks really good first thing in the morning, Ill see about getting a pick tomorrow.
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
Couldnt agree more.. I dont think she could be in any better of hands!
Solid Snake
Avid Member
awwww you guys....
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Update
I (finally
) recieved the results on the culture. She indeed has an infection.
I would like any opinions/information on the infection, and medication prescribed.
Infection: Aeromonas
Medication: Ciprofloxacin
A quick search showed that the medication is sound, and commonly used for this infection. That was a quick search though, right now I am off to pic up the meds
Thanks again everyone
I (finally
) recieved the results on the culture. She indeed has an infection.I would like any opinions/information on the infection, and medication prescribed.
Infection: Aeromonas
Medication: Ciprofloxacin
A quick search showed that the medication is sound, and commonly used for this infection. That was a quick search though, right now I am off to pic up the meds
Thanks again everyone
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
I (finally
I would like any opinions/information on the infection, and medication prescribed.
Infection: Aeromonas
Medication: Ciprofloxacin
A quick search showed that the medication is sound, and commonly used for this infection. That was a quick search though, right now I am off to pic up the meds
Thanks again everyone
So glad you know what it is now, I hope she makes a quick recovery!
Im not sure about the meds though.. But i'd bet someone here does!
ataraxia
Avid Member
I (finally
I would like any opinions/information on the infection, and medication prescribed.
Infection: Aeromonas
Medication: Ciprofloxacin
A quick search showed that the medication is sound, and commonly used for this infection. That was a quick search though, right now I am off to pic up the meds
Thanks again everyone
Awesome. What is the dosing prescribed? Can you ask what was the Weight.Dose strength.Ciprofloxacin strength??
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Thanks bro!So glad you know what it is now, I hope she makes a quick recovery!
Im not sure about the meds though.. But i'd bet someone here does!
The dose prescribed is 0.04cc Twice Daily.
Im not sure about the weight/dose strength(I can ask).
Here is the culture report, they looked at me funny when I asked for a copy of it
xanthoman
Avid Member
about stella my 2c worth pt1
first be sure your vet is a arav or certified herp vet. standard vets often dont understand they complexities of cham metabolism, they just think they do. i will be checking to see if he is arav registered.
the report is pretty straight forward. the animal has tested postive for the gram negative bacterium aeromonas hydrophila.
all of the different drugs are just a list of the common drugs that would ordinarily be considered and the known resistance/effectiveness levels for them.
your vet has chosen cipro. i cant say whether or not its the best choice because i havent researched all of the drugs on the list and am not about to, even i am not that obsessive. but i can say that cipro is a common go to drug for this type of reptile infection. i will say this about cipro it is capable of causing some problems including neuropathy, so i would be 100% sure of your dosing prior to administering.
imo, the problem with most vets including reptile and even human drs is that they are better at treating the symptoms than they are treating the cause. imo,generally speaking, properly administerd cipro is a fairly benign drug.
for the sake of convenience i would like to cut and paste from wiki, under the creative common license.
Ciprofloxacin (INN) is a synthetic antibiotic of the fluoroquinolone drug class.[2][3] It is a second-generation fluoroquinolone antibacterial. It kills bacteria by interfering with the enzymes that cause DNA to rewind after being copied, which stops synthesis of DNA and of protein.
Special precautions
The status of the patient's renal function and hepatic function must also be taken into consideration to avoid an accumulation that may lead to an overdose and the development of toxicity. Ciprofloxacin is eliminated primarily by renal excretion. However, the drug is also metabolized and partially cleared through the liver and the intestines. Modification of the dosage is recommended using the table found within the package insert for those with impaired liver or kidney function. However, since the drug is known to be substantially excreted by the kidneys, the risk of toxic reactions to this drug may be greater in patients with impaired renal function. The duration of treatment depends upon the severity of infection and is usually 7 to 14 days.[20]
In 2004, the U.S. FDA requested new warning labels to be added to all of the fluoroquinolones, including ciprofloxacin, regarding peripheral neuropathy (irreversible nerve damage), tendon damage, heart problems (prolonged QT Interval / torsades de pointes), pseudomembranous colitis, rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown)
Aeromonas hydrophila is a heterotrophic, Gram-negative, rod shaped bacterium, mainly found in areas with a warm climate. This bacterium can also be found in fresh, salt, marine, estuarine, chlorinated, and un-chlorinated water. Aeromonas hydrophila can survive in aerobic and anaerobic environments. This bacterium can digest materials such as gelatin, and hemoglobin. Aeromonas hydrophila was isolated from humans and animals in the 1950s. This bacterium is the most well known of the six species of Aeromonas. It is also highly resistant to multiple medications, chlorine, and cold temperatures. this to me implies drying your cage and lowering your temps might help. imo, it also implies that it could have come from your household water or its water supply (like maybe if you are showering or using bottled water. it also implies it could have come from soil high in nitrogen content. the only way to know would be to perform microscopy. imo, i would change your water supply (bottled?) and discontinue household showers if given.
pt2 to follow 10,000 character limit
first be sure your vet is a arav or certified herp vet. standard vets often dont understand they complexities of cham metabolism, they just think they do. i will be checking to see if he is arav registered.
the report is pretty straight forward. the animal has tested postive for the gram negative bacterium aeromonas hydrophila.
all of the different drugs are just a list of the common drugs that would ordinarily be considered and the known resistance/effectiveness levels for them.
your vet has chosen cipro. i cant say whether or not its the best choice because i havent researched all of the drugs on the list and am not about to, even i am not that obsessive. but i can say that cipro is a common go to drug for this type of reptile infection. i will say this about cipro it is capable of causing some problems including neuropathy, so i would be 100% sure of your dosing prior to administering.
imo, the problem with most vets including reptile and even human drs is that they are better at treating the symptoms than they are treating the cause. imo,generally speaking, properly administerd cipro is a fairly benign drug.
for the sake of convenience i would like to cut and paste from wiki, under the creative common license.
Ciprofloxacin (INN) is a synthetic antibiotic of the fluoroquinolone drug class.[2][3] It is a second-generation fluoroquinolone antibacterial. It kills bacteria by interfering with the enzymes that cause DNA to rewind after being copied, which stops synthesis of DNA and of protein.
Special precautions
The status of the patient's renal function and hepatic function must also be taken into consideration to avoid an accumulation that may lead to an overdose and the development of toxicity. Ciprofloxacin is eliminated primarily by renal excretion. However, the drug is also metabolized and partially cleared through the liver and the intestines. Modification of the dosage is recommended using the table found within the package insert for those with impaired liver or kidney function. However, since the drug is known to be substantially excreted by the kidneys, the risk of toxic reactions to this drug may be greater in patients with impaired renal function. The duration of treatment depends upon the severity of infection and is usually 7 to 14 days.[20]
In 2004, the U.S. FDA requested new warning labels to be added to all of the fluoroquinolones, including ciprofloxacin, regarding peripheral neuropathy (irreversible nerve damage), tendon damage, heart problems (prolonged QT Interval / torsades de pointes), pseudomembranous colitis, rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown)
Aeromonas hydrophila is a heterotrophic, Gram-negative, rod shaped bacterium, mainly found in areas with a warm climate. This bacterium can also be found in fresh, salt, marine, estuarine, chlorinated, and un-chlorinated water. Aeromonas hydrophila can survive in aerobic and anaerobic environments. This bacterium can digest materials such as gelatin, and hemoglobin. Aeromonas hydrophila was isolated from humans and animals in the 1950s. This bacterium is the most well known of the six species of Aeromonas. It is also highly resistant to multiple medications, chlorine, and cold temperatures. this to me implies drying your cage and lowering your temps might help. imo, it also implies that it could have come from your household water or its water supply (like maybe if you are showering or using bottled water. it also implies it could have come from soil high in nitrogen content. the only way to know would be to perform microscopy. imo, i would change your water supply (bottled?) and discontinue household showers if given.
pt2 to follow 10,000 character limit
Last edited:
xanthoman
Avid Member
about stella my 2c worth pt2
also taken from wiki under creative commons license credits given at site of original articles.
what i am about to post echos what i have said time and time again in my posts, imo its something that most vets are very poor at communicating or may not even understand themselves, and this applies not only to bacterial infections but other eye problems, tongue problems, problems with impaction, falling or balance. everybody tends to view these thing as isolated , singularly caused maladies, when in fact they are related to overall metabolism in a very complicated way.
every body wants a miracle cure in a bottle to cure their problem, when imo, more often than not, its over use of manufactured products that usually cause the metabolic imbalance that led to the issue in the first place. as imo, metabolically healthy chams rarely fall, get eye or tongue infections or get impacted. imo, these are all warning signs of greater underlying problems . ie it does little good to treat the symptoms, unless you treat the metabolic issues that caused them.
Pathology
Because of Aeromonas hydrophila’s structure, it is very toxic to many organisms. When it enters the body of its victim, it travels through the bloodstream to the first available organ. It produces Aerolysin Cytotoxic Enterotoxin (ACT), a toxin that can cause tissue damage. Aeromonas hydrophila, Aeromonas caviae, and Aeromonas sobria are all considered to be opportunistic pathogens, meaning they rarely infect healthy individuals. Aeromonas hydrophila is widely considered a major fish and amphibian pathogen[1], apoptosis is a form of selective cell death but i think in this case, ACT, is a bigger risk because it can onset osmotic lysis (organ perforation. see,- not just an eye issue, ITS NEVER JUST AN EYE ISSUE, IMO, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "JUST AN EYE ISSUE"). repeat; "RARELY INFECT HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS.", meaning if you want to cure your animal long term you will need to get to the root cause of the metabolic imbalance that lowered his immunity to the point were he was susceptible to this infection. probably wouldnt hurt to post your help form and do a review of your diet/supp regimen as well as cage hygienic practices.
ADP-ribosylation toxin is one of the effector molecules secreted by several pathogenic bacteria and translocated through TTSS ( type 3 secretion system) and delivered into the host cytoplasm leads to interruption of NF-κB pathway, cytoskeletal damage and apoptosis. This toxin has been characterized in Aeromonas hydrophila (human diarrhoeal isolate), imo, this suggests that transmission was fecal in nature, this is why i mention cage cleanliness. in the aeromonas scenario, apoptosis is onset by the ADP toxin, there are times when apotosis is desireable (such as cancer and fetal formation), but this aint cancer and i dont think it would be one of them. still i view osmotic lysis, onset by ACT toxin the bigger more threatening issue. jmo
Occurrence of exposure
Aeromonas hydrophila infections occur most during environmental changes, stressors, change in the temperature, in contaminated environments, and when an organism is already infected with a virus or another bacterium. It can also be ingested through food products that have already been infected with the bacterium, such as seafood, meats, and even certain vegetables such as sprouts. imo, this implies that already stressed at the time of infection which is what allowed it to occur in the first place. imo, you probably already had metabolic issues at hand and your recent move/road trip may have provided enough stress to trigger the event. this is what i have said time and time again. metabollically healthy animals dont fall, they dont have tongue problems, and they dont get bacterial eye infections. fix the conditions that created this problem and the animal will be much easier to treat and much less likely to re-infect. fail to correct the problems that caused it and it will likely return and next time it wont be as easy as a cipro script.
Human diseases
Aeromonas hydrophila is not as pathogenic to humans as it is to fish and amphibians. One of the diseases it can cause in humans is gastroenteritis. This disease can affect anyone, but it occurs most in young children and people who have compromised immune systems or growth problems. This bacterium is linked to two types of gastroenteritis. The first type is a disease similar to cholera, which causes rice-water diarrhea. The other type of disease is dysenteric gastroenteritis, which causes loose stools filled with blood and mucus. Dysenteric gastroenteritis is the most severe out of the two types, and can last for multiple weeks. Aeromonas hydrophila is also associated with cellulitis, an infection that causes inflammation in the skin tissue. It also causes diseases such as myonecrosis and eczema in people with compromised immune systems. so, not likely dangerous in humans, but a little common sense would be a good idea, wear gloves when handling your animal and all equip and disinfect afterwards, be careful not to put your hands to your face. so, it is possible to get it and if you do they are going to treat you with you guessed it, cipro lol. ( i just finished personally taking cipro lol). imo, i would disinfect your cage every other day during the treatment process or you risk the animal reinfecting itself, also if your animal does reinfect itself, its not likely that cipro would be effective for a second regimen so treartment becomes more complicated ie follow regimen to the letter, so it doesnt turn into a worse problem. i would be alert for cham skin issues during this time, also, if you get the runs, tell your dr (not xanthoman lol)
Aeromonas hydrophila can be eliminated using one percent sodium hypochlorite solution and two percent calcium hypochlorite solution.
Antibiotic agents such as chloramphenicol, florenicol, tetracycline, sulfonamide, nitrofuran derivatives, and pyrodinecarboxylic acids are used to eliminate and control the infection of Aeromonas hydrophila.
Terramycin is placed in fish food during hatchery operations as another chemotherapeutic agent in preventing Aeromonas hydrophila. imo, this implies that bleach alone may not be sufficient, if you are limited to just bleach, i would use household Na0CI;h20 1;5 let sit 20 min (animal out of cage of course). spray, rinse well, dry thoroughly. it would be a great time to get the animal some outside sun if weather permits, if its a xanth you are easily good down to 50*f. if you have a spare cage that would be good too, just change cages every day and wash the other one. outside sun still recommended. also, if you do outside sun, be sure to adjust D3 offering accordingly. now if you'll excuse me, i have got some SFE (SupercriticalFluidExtraction to do. lol). feel free to repost or pm if you think i can be of any help. jmo
edit; ps i know you dont want to hear this, but imo, if you have any live plants (as you should) i would xcan them until the treatment process is over and start fresh using my previously posted soil sanitiztion /soiless conversion procedure. when i posted this procedure, everybody thought i was nuts, this is the exact type of scenario, the procedure was designed to prevent. jmo.
also taken from wiki under creative commons license credits given at site of original articles.
what i am about to post echos what i have said time and time again in my posts, imo its something that most vets are very poor at communicating or may not even understand themselves, and this applies not only to bacterial infections but other eye problems, tongue problems, problems with impaction, falling or balance. everybody tends to view these thing as isolated , singularly caused maladies, when in fact they are related to overall metabolism in a very complicated way.
every body wants a miracle cure in a bottle to cure their problem, when imo, more often than not, its over use of manufactured products that usually cause the metabolic imbalance that led to the issue in the first place. as imo, metabolically healthy chams rarely fall, get eye or tongue infections or get impacted. imo, these are all warning signs of greater underlying problems . ie it does little good to treat the symptoms, unless you treat the metabolic issues that caused them.
Pathology
Because of Aeromonas hydrophila’s structure, it is very toxic to many organisms. When it enters the body of its victim, it travels through the bloodstream to the first available organ. It produces Aerolysin Cytotoxic Enterotoxin (ACT), a toxin that can cause tissue damage. Aeromonas hydrophila, Aeromonas caviae, and Aeromonas sobria are all considered to be opportunistic pathogens, meaning they rarely infect healthy individuals. Aeromonas hydrophila is widely considered a major fish and amphibian pathogen[1], apoptosis is a form of selective cell death but i think in this case, ACT, is a bigger risk because it can onset osmotic lysis (organ perforation. see,- not just an eye issue, ITS NEVER JUST AN EYE ISSUE, IMO, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "JUST AN EYE ISSUE"). repeat; "RARELY INFECT HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS.", meaning if you want to cure your animal long term you will need to get to the root cause of the metabolic imbalance that lowered his immunity to the point were he was susceptible to this infection. probably wouldnt hurt to post your help form and do a review of your diet/supp regimen as well as cage hygienic practices.
ADP-ribosylation toxin is one of the effector molecules secreted by several pathogenic bacteria and translocated through TTSS ( type 3 secretion system) and delivered into the host cytoplasm leads to interruption of NF-κB pathway, cytoskeletal damage and apoptosis. This toxin has been characterized in Aeromonas hydrophila (human diarrhoeal isolate), imo, this suggests that transmission was fecal in nature, this is why i mention cage cleanliness. in the aeromonas scenario, apoptosis is onset by the ADP toxin, there are times when apotosis is desireable (such as cancer and fetal formation), but this aint cancer and i dont think it would be one of them. still i view osmotic lysis, onset by ACT toxin the bigger more threatening issue. jmo
Occurrence of exposure
Aeromonas hydrophila infections occur most during environmental changes, stressors, change in the temperature, in contaminated environments, and when an organism is already infected with a virus or another bacterium. It can also be ingested through food products that have already been infected with the bacterium, such as seafood, meats, and even certain vegetables such as sprouts. imo, this implies that already stressed at the time of infection which is what allowed it to occur in the first place. imo, you probably already had metabolic issues at hand and your recent move/road trip may have provided enough stress to trigger the event. this is what i have said time and time again. metabollically healthy animals dont fall, they dont have tongue problems, and they dont get bacterial eye infections. fix the conditions that created this problem and the animal will be much easier to treat and much less likely to re-infect. fail to correct the problems that caused it and it will likely return and next time it wont be as easy as a cipro script.
Human diseases
Aeromonas hydrophila is not as pathogenic to humans as it is to fish and amphibians. One of the diseases it can cause in humans is gastroenteritis. This disease can affect anyone, but it occurs most in young children and people who have compromised immune systems or growth problems. This bacterium is linked to two types of gastroenteritis. The first type is a disease similar to cholera, which causes rice-water diarrhea. The other type of disease is dysenteric gastroenteritis, which causes loose stools filled with blood and mucus. Dysenteric gastroenteritis is the most severe out of the two types, and can last for multiple weeks. Aeromonas hydrophila is also associated with cellulitis, an infection that causes inflammation in the skin tissue. It also causes diseases such as myonecrosis and eczema in people with compromised immune systems. so, not likely dangerous in humans, but a little common sense would be a good idea, wear gloves when handling your animal and all equip and disinfect afterwards, be careful not to put your hands to your face. so, it is possible to get it and if you do they are going to treat you with you guessed it, cipro lol. ( i just finished personally taking cipro lol). imo, i would disinfect your cage every other day during the treatment process or you risk the animal reinfecting itself, also if your animal does reinfect itself, its not likely that cipro would be effective for a second regimen so treartment becomes more complicated ie follow regimen to the letter, so it doesnt turn into a worse problem. i would be alert for cham skin issues during this time, also, if you get the runs, tell your dr (not xanthoman lol)
Aeromonas hydrophila can be eliminated using one percent sodium hypochlorite solution and two percent calcium hypochlorite solution.
Antibiotic agents such as chloramphenicol, florenicol, tetracycline, sulfonamide, nitrofuran derivatives, and pyrodinecarboxylic acids are used to eliminate and control the infection of Aeromonas hydrophila.
Terramycin is placed in fish food during hatchery operations as another chemotherapeutic agent in preventing Aeromonas hydrophila. imo, this implies that bleach alone may not be sufficient, if you are limited to just bleach, i would use household Na0CI;h20 1;5 let sit 20 min (animal out of cage of course). spray, rinse well, dry thoroughly. it would be a great time to get the animal some outside sun if weather permits, if its a xanth you are easily good down to 50*f. if you have a spare cage that would be good too, just change cages every day and wash the other one. outside sun still recommended. also, if you do outside sun, be sure to adjust D3 offering accordingly. now if you'll excuse me, i have got some SFE (SupercriticalFluidExtraction to do. lol). feel free to repost or pm if you think i can be of any help. jmo
edit; ps i know you dont want to hear this, but imo, if you have any live plants (as you should) i would xcan them until the treatment process is over and start fresh using my previously posted soil sanitiztion /soiless conversion procedure. when i posted this procedure, everybody thought i was nuts, this is the exact type of scenario, the procedure was designed to prevent. jmo.
Last edited:
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Well after almost a month, the meds finally ran out a few days ago.
She stayed pretty dark and dehydrated the whole time, and very inactive.
Today she is a superb green color again.
Her eyes have looked wrinkly and dark red since the swelling went down.
Now they are going back to normal.
She still looks a bit dehydrated, but that should go away soon.
I want to thank everyone for their help and input, couldnt have done it without you.
Hopefully she will be 100% soon!
Here she is sunning on this beautiful morning:
She stayed pretty dark and dehydrated the whole time, and very inactive.
Today she is a superb green color again.
Her eyes have looked wrinkly and dark red since the swelling went down.
Now they are going back to normal.
She still looks a bit dehydrated, but that should go away soon.
I want to thank everyone for their help and input, couldnt have done it without you.
Hopefully she will be 100% soon!
Here she is sunning on this beautiful morning:
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
This is great news man! She looks wonderful, and looks like she has picked up some weight too. (I meant that in a good way)
She looks wonderful, and looks like she has picked up some weight too. (I meant that in a good way)
Solid Snake
Avid Member
This is great news man!
Thanks.
The edema went away fairly quickly actually, after about a week and a half or so.
She hasnt had much of an appetite at all, but its coming back.
Im thinking its almost shed time too, look at those wrinkles!
Solid Snake
Avid Member
Thanks Jann.
I am very happy about it myself. She was my first chameleon, so she is super special to me.
Captive Creations
Member
glad she is doing better. she looks really good! She couldnt have asked for a better keeper. I am glad you didn't take no for an answer. as I am sure you and your chameleon are too!
she is a beauty!
she is a beauty!
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