Someone please help, quick!

[jhadden]

I am so worried about my veiled chameleon, Kermit. I know he has MBD, but do not know what to do for him. I know that is what it is because he has had it once before. He healed fine after I replaced his light and got the right calcium supplement. So, he has been getting his calcium by dusting his crickets and he does have a light on in the daytime. What else could cause this and how can I help him? Right now I have in outside in the natural sun, thinking maybe his light is not giving off the correct amount of UVA/UVB rays. We gave him some calcium dissolved in water to make sure he is getting enough, since he hasn't eaten in about 3 days. His bones look brittle and yesterday he fell from his branch. He also has one eye closed all the time.

I know it sounds strange, but I really l love this little guy and I would be devastated if I lost him. Any advice would be appreciated, and the sooner the better.
Thanks,
Janet

 

[beeze]

Please fill out the ask for help form so we can see what you are doing and what you need to change. Also remember the UV can not come through glass.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[sandrachameleon]

What brand and type of UVB bulb are you using and when was the bulb last changed?
What do you gutload with?
Have you taken the chameleon to a vet?

 

[kinyonga]

Its important to correct whatever is causing/allowing it to happen again as well as fixing it...as I'm sure you are aware...so please post the information that breeze advised you to. Please make sure that it includes, basking and ambient temperatures, what brand and type (spiral, compact, long linear tube) lights you use as well as the brands and frequencies of the supplements you use and specific details of what you feed to the insects.

 

[jhadden]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen 18"x24"
Lighting - We keep the light on all day from 8-8. I am not sure of the brand or model number

Temperature - The temp in the cage is usually 85 degrees in day and around 70 at night

Humidity - I mist the cage twice a day

Plants - No living plants, just fake vines
Placement - Cage is on bookcase in my bedroom, no high traffic, vents or drafts in area

Location - Northeastern CT

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled Chameleon, 3 years old, in my care from 8 weeks

Handling - I take him out for about 10 minutes to 30 minutes every 2-3 days
Feeding - We feed him pre gut loaded crickets from pet store, about a dozen every 2-3 days
Supplements - We dust the crickets with Rep Cal every feeding
Watering - Besides misting the cage, I use sprayer to directly give water to my chameleon. He is trained to open his mouth for the spritzing
Fecal Description - Normal
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No
History - He has had this before and was cured in a week or so with the correct lighting and powder/calcium
Current Problem - Brittle bones, one eye closed, falling off branches, trouble catching crickets, lethargic
He also has a black burn at the bottom of his tail, which he has had for a long time and never seemed to bother him. I put bacitracin on it periodicly hoping it will heal, but it stays black.

Thank you,
Janet

 

[joshdhensley]

The light is a big deal. You need to have a good uv bulb(preferably a Reptisun 5.0 fluorescent bulb) Also, don't trust the pest stores "gut loading". All they do is put them in a big trashcan with some fishflake most of the time.

 

[jojackson]

The temp in the cage is usually 85 degrees in day

You dont mention if your light is a heat source or how close it is Janet? A burn suggests you might need to re-evaluate your setup a little and very closely monitor temperatures.

Since you only mention one light, we need more information about that to help you. Your cham needs to getting UV either from a UV specific light (prefrably separate from your heat lihght) or from natural sources on a regular basis.

As mentioned by josh, the nutritional value of insects you feed him will be greatly boosted by gutloading yourself with fresh fruit/green veg, prior to feeding. Also a greater variety of insect types wherever avail will go a long way to better nutrition.

One eye closed tends to suggest a problem developing from lighting (though other causes may be at work).

What makes you think your lizards bones are brittle still? How long ago was it diagnosed with MBD?

Are you sure the black patch is actually a burn? It should respond to treatment and improve with consequent sloughs. It might pay to seek advice about vit A deficiency,
an issue Im told by those who know more, can sometimes cause blackening of tails.

If at all possible, please seek a vet consult in your area at the earliest convenience.
Best wishes

 

[kinyonga]

Please make sure that it includes, BASKING and ambient temperatures, what brand and TYPE (spiral, compact, long linear tube) lights you use as well as the brands and frequencies of the supplements you use and SPECIFIC DETAILS of what you feed to the insects.
I should have asked more detail about the supplements...Rep-Cal without D3 or with D3?

 

[vindicatedornot]

Cage Info:
Cage Type - all screen 18"x24"

You have an adult male veiled in that small of a cage?

-Andrea

 

[ashrules]

i dont know much about chams...but form iv been told they are to eat supplemented food every day..
my cham nails thru around 6-7 crickets and locusts per day...all supplemented with calcuim and sumtimes even more...thats like around and over 21 bugs every 2 to 3 days
and u say ur cham only eats around 6 every 2 to 3 days?????


as i said..im not a boffin i just listen to what people have advised me...

cheers an hope he gets better...

 

[vindicatedornot]

i dont know much about chams...but form iv been told they are to eat supplemented food every day..
my cham nails thru around 6-7 crickets and locusts per day...all supplemented with calcuim and sumtimes even more...thats like around and over 21 bugs every 2 to 3 days
and u say ur cham only eats around 6 every 2 to 3 days?????


as i said..im not a boffin i just listen to what people have advised me...

cheers an hope he gets better...

Supplements and food intake depend on age. An adult cham is better off not eating every day IMO.

 

[jhadden]

Kermit

Please make sure that it includes, BASKING and ambient temperatures, what brand and TYPE (spiral, compact, long linear tube) lights you use as well as the brands and frequencies of the supplements you use and SPECIFIC DETAILS of what you feed to the insects.
I should have asked more detail about the supplements...Rep-Cal without D3 or with D3?

With D3. The bulb is a compact bulb. I do not know the brand as my husband bought it awhile ago and doesn't remember. My concern is that it only gives off UVB and not UVA or vice versa. Is there any way to tell? I do not have a reptile vet in the area, so what else can I do to help him on my own?
Thanks for your help,
J

 

[Bay687]

dont get on me about what im bout to say cuz i didnt read everyones comments, i just read the beginning and the ask, but to me.. my first issue would definitley be the light,

recommendation: definitley get Reptisun 5.0 or Reptisun 10.0

the no name brands are no bueno my friend, it's like taking a kia sorento to the dunes, it does you no good but harm when you got to tow that sh** out, causes nothing but extra money because it didnt do the job..

so first thing first i would say.. get the reptisun.. it makes the difference


oh ya also on the food and supplements!! GUTLOAD!!! GUTLOAD!!! GUTLOAD!!! its important to gutload your feeders fruits and whatever else! your chameleon eats whatever the feeders eat! also look into the calcium with vitamin d, the herpitive supplements, and my vet told me look into dusting feeders once a week with vitamin a, he guided me to a supplement he carries that has vitamin a, he says he think vitamin a is very crucial, and that chameleons need it, its very important, and not many people give them vitamin a, he says its great to feed a pinky mouse here and there once every month or two because there cary vitamin a.. but check on your supplement also

 

[jhadden]

Kermit was not diagnosed with MBD. I just diagnosed him from what I read online about it. As soon as I did what was recommended, he got better. That was over 2 years ago. He just has the same symptoms, so I am assuming that is what it is. I do not have a reptilian vet here, so I have to help him myself by educating myself about their care and possible illnesses.

No, I am not sure that the black tail is a burn, although it looks like one. It is the bottom tip of the tail. I put bacitracin on it a few times, but it hasn't gotten better at all.
Thanks for you help and advice!
J

 

[dondeb562]

The compacts have been known to cause eye problems. You will want a florecent tube on him. Also the age of the bulb is a biggy as well. Some people say repleace once a year while others say every 6 months.
I would suggest a vet, liquid calcium, and a reptisun 5.0 tube.

 

[xanthoman]

the only way to halt mbd once its in progress is by an overly obsessive regimen of PROPERLY and well thought out supplementation and lighting , you may want to consider building a smaller convenient basking cage , one of the best things you can do for any chameleon is get them some real sun, a trip to a bona fide herp vet is in order, one word of caution, most vets are unwilling to admit their lack of knowledge or experience in terms of herps or chams, you need to find an actual herp vet and verify for your self , otherwise they will just fake it and charge you anyway , a good place to start is; http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

 

[kinyonga]

If your husbandry is good he shouldn't keep getting the MBD back again.
Because most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, its important to dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder.

I dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that has a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene prOformed) won't build up in the system like prEformed will. However, its not been proven whether any/all chameleons can convert beta carotene or not. Excess prEformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD.

I also dust twice a month lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder because my chameleons don't go outside much. D3 from SUPPLEMENTS can build up in the system too...so don't overdo it.

Gutloading and feeding the insects a nutritious diet is important too. Crickets, roaches and superworms can be fed a wide variety of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Appropriate basking temperatures also play a part because it helps with digestion.

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are all important players in bone health (and other systems in the chameleon) and need to be in balance. You need to look at what you feed the chameleons, what you supplement with and what you feed the insects when trying to balance this.

Now...unless your chameleon is showing obvious signs of MBD, a vet is needed to diagnose it. The above supplementation, etc. will not correct it. The chameleon needs more calcium and good UVB to be able to correct it.

As for the burn (if it is a burn) flamazine or silvadene are meant for burns...don't know if what you are using is or not.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://chameleonnews.com/
http://adcham.com/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502...als.com/vet/index.php?show=8.Gout.Basics.html

 

[Chameleoco]

I think you should take him to the vet because as MBD has never been diagnosed, trying any treatment without veterinarian advice and supervision would possibly make things worse if indeed he doesnt have MBD and has a similar ailment which could mimic it.
MBD is a term widely used to describe a number of bone deficiencies, not all are caused directly by lack of calcium.(but will affect the chameleons calcium levels)
I would follow the advice given by the rest of the members regrding lighting and supplementation and I hope he is ok for you!

 

[beeze]

Find a good chameleon vet for this little guy ASAP. He deserves to be properly cared for.

 

[prettykttkat]

I agree with everyone that he should see a vet right away. Just wanted to point out that MBD is not cured in a week. All the chams that I have had come in with MBD take a month or more depending on how severe the MBD is to recover. Treatment is proper conditions(whatever requirements they need depending on species),lighting(UV),a proper diet and neo cal (liquid calcium) every day. Also if your cham has ever had MBD it can cause it to have Hyperparathyroidism later on down the road. The tip of tail sounds like it is dead(necrosis). If it is, it will have to be amputated as it could cause your cham to die from infection. I work for a reptile rescue and have seen all these issues before. One of the rescued Veileds I have right now had to have his tail tip amputated. Many more have come in with MBD The thing with reptiles is you have to act fast and get them to a proper vet asap or they will die.