Snails....Silkworms......Roaches (Not Dubias, not waxed)

[Rst_Cham]

Ya you could easily keep 10 in there. I had 12 in a 5 gallon and they bred for me. Adults. Then we had 2 in. Critter Keeper small. Those just laid, my wife killed the ones in the 5 gallon on accident.

Don't leave their tank outside in AZ sunny day, you will have escargot.

My wife took them outside to get the FFs out, and forgot them, and they were cooked in 2 hours. I missed their eggs till they hatched, so she killed the babies too . But our 2 in the CK just laid about 90 eggs.

Would you mind describing their setup, temp, humidity, food, substrate, etc?

 

[Thatwizard420]

Ya you could easily keep 10 in there. I had 12 in a 5 gallon and they bred for me. Adults. Then we had 2 in. Critter Keeper small. Those just laid, my wife killed the ones in the 5 gallon on accident.

Don't leave their tank outside in AZ sunny day, you will have escargot.

My wife took them outside to get the FFs out, and forgot them, and they were cooked in 2 hours. I missed their eggs till they hatched, so she killed the babies too . But our 2 in the CK just laid about 90 eggs.

Ok, dope... Imma do my research and I’m down to cop some off ya.

 

[cyberlocc]

Would you mind describing their setup, temp, humidity, food, substrate, etc?

Ya, I just answered this in a DM last night, long windly, so Copy Paste .

So my old soil, was a mix of Cocofiber and perlite and sand. I though that holds tunnels for Chams, surely it will work with snail's. I don't think they liked it. There was a bunch of holes in the dirt, recently, but no eggs. I changed the soil out for straight eco earth and they immediately laid. There may be a benefit to some sand, but way less I think than what I had.

However that soil was pretty smelly, I was told to try to not change it, as they add their bacterias to it, and it is beneficial to them. That could have played a role, but they seemed to have issues digging in it deep enough.

Temp, I just keep them house temps. Nothing special my house as we use a Swamp Cooler and Propane heat, varies quite a bit. 60-80, some nights in the winter sometimes down to 50, and they have been fine through it all.

Humidity, they like it wet. They don't seemingly need a ton of air holes. So just like you would keep an Isopods or something. If it gets too dry, they will be okay, but they will sleep. They aestivate (probably didn't spell that right) so they will attach themselves to the side of the container, and make a mucus to seal up against it. This allows them to sleep, Humidily inside of their shell. Apparently they can do this for up to 2 years at a time.

If it gets too dry and this happens, just spray them with water and the water breaks the seal and they wake right up. It happened to me twice. The second time, I just said screw it, it was mid Winter, I had other stuff going on, didn't think they would breed in the winter so just let them sleep. I let them sleep almost 2 months, my wife was positive they were all dead, sprayed them and boom they all sprang up hungry and happy. So if you need to slow breeding or whatever this is an option. I'm not sure how this affects their lifespan, as they don't grow or eat during this time. I think it's a sort of deep freeze, of their system.

They can live for a very long time I am told, in captivity up to 10 years, I am not sure how much of that is influenced by sleep though. As I have been told, no Aestivating they will live 3-4 years.

They are Hermiphodites (I know I didn't spell that right) so when they mate, both may have babies, or only 1. 50-120 eggs per clucth, usually around 80-90.

So this next part. I don't know for sure, I have seen some studies, but there could be so much more going on there that I am not going to make assumptions.

I have been told that you need to make enclosure size 1 gallon per snail. Obviously that's insane. But that is what the snail lovers suggest. Now I seen a study, they had snail's in a 5g and a 10g and a 20 gallon setup.

They had multiple groups, and they said that 30 snail's in a 10 gallon had the most effective numbers, or 60 in a 20gal, and 15 in a 5. It was not badly effected by growth, the rates were acceptable and the loss of the 10 gallon after a 6 month period (hacthed to adults) there was still 27 remaining (similar numbers for the other sizes).

There was Zero losses, for the 5 to 5 10 to 10 and 20 to 20. And their was like 18 of the 20 for the 10 gallon 20. The 40 in a 10 dropped to 24. So they had showed, 3 per gallon is ideal. They did not say at what point the die offs happened, so to contrast babies vs adults, as we will not let them grow full size we can probably have more.

Now to add another element, they used a semi low wooden box. In my experience, the snail's spend most of their time on the glass (sides) of the enclosure. Or the roof if it's soild, like a bin or glass top. They go to the soil to lay, and eat that's about it, sometimes they walk across it and any branches, most of the time not.

I have seen and been told, if you put a bunch of pieces of plexiglass stacked height wise, like roaches egg carton, that you can increase snail's per gallon. If they get overcrowded, they will release a toxin (I was wondering if this was the soils smell) that will kill off some of the colony I guess.

So if you use like a fish tank, (which works well, with an acrylic lid) you could silicon pieces of acrylic or something for more climbing area, maybe do it like a roach enclosure where it's only half, and leave a food area.


They poo alot, so your going to have to clean that, I just mist it down, so that helps with humidity too. The poo also provides calcium and a PH balance to the soil, and I am told beneficial bacteria, so do this, and if the soil stinks really bad, swap it, but keep some of the old and mix it into the new. Usually every other day, when I feed. They eat a insane amount, so make sure to feed alot until you get an idea what your colony can eat. Also throw cuttlebone in there, as they will eat it for calcium for their shell.

If you go take them to feed or whatever, when you try to get them off the surface, Slide them. If you pull it's like a suction cup and you can kill them pretty easy they have a firm grip on glass/plastic ect, so slide them a bit, and it will loosen and remove easily.

So I didn't cover what they eat. Anything lol. Litteraly they have eaten anything and everything I have thrown in there. Apples, Carrots, Orange, Kale, organic applesauce, fruit/veggie based, organic baby food, pears there was probably some other stuff, I don't remember.

If you plant plants in their cage, they will eat that too. Not all plants, I was told they won't eat and do appreciate Ivy, as hides. I am going to try, they will DEVOUR pothos so that's a no go.

Whatever you feed them, they eat ton. I would cut an apple for my roaches and the snails, I would throw a quarter in each roaches, they would not finish it, I threw half in with snail's, it was gone in a few hours.

The lady I got my WCs from (I just made a post in local FS groups.) She said she couldn't believe I wanted them lol, but no she said they eat her watermelon, squash, cucumber, and cantaloupe. I think they will pretty much any kind of fruit/veggie/plants.

That's a good option, for anyone trying to source some. Organic farmers have serious issues with them, they will undoubtedly have some they will happily give to you.

 

[Thatwizard420]

What’s WC?

 

[Syreptyon]

What’s WC?

wild caught

 

[Rst_Cham]

Ya, I just answered this in a DM last night, long windly, so Copy Paste .



So I didn't cover what they eat. Anything lol. Litteraly they have eaten anything and everything I have thrown in there. Apples, Carrots, Orange, Kale, organic applesauce, fruit/veggie based, organic baby food, pears there was probably some other stuff, I don't remember.

If you plant plants in their cage, they will eat that too. Not all plants, I was told they won't eat and do appreciate Ivy, as hides. I am going to try, they will DEVOUR pothos so that's a no go.

Whatever you feed them, they eat ton. I would cut an apple for my roaches and the snails, I would throw a quarter in each roaches, they would not finish it, I threw half in with snail's, it was gone in a few hours.

The lady I got my WCs from (I just made a post in local FS groups.) She said she couldn't believe I wanted them lol, but no she said they eat her watermelon, squash, cucumber, and cantaloupe. I think they will pretty much any kind of fruit/veggie/plants.

That's a good option, for anyone trying to source some. Organic farmers have serious issues with them, they will undoubtedly have some they will happily give to you.

Thank you so much, very helpful! I'm going to make some changes this weekend. Mine are currently sleeping so I'm guessing I have them to warm or too dry.

 

[Thatwizard420]

So I can get Hundreds of WC here at work.... Problem is this nursery is full of pesticides. Do I need to wait for some generations of babies to feed my Cham?

 

[cyberlocc]

So I can get Hundreds of WC here at work.... Problem is this nursery is full of pesticides. Do I need to wait for some generations of babies to feed my Cham?

Ya, either way no matter where you get them you need to breed them out, at least once. (Unless they already bred out once)

I been told by the snail peeps that the biggest concern Rat Lungworm, will die off after 30-45 days without getting a new host. Simply feeding uninfected foods will be fine.

So while raising the WCs I would switch soil a few times, like every 2 weeks for the first 2 months. To make sure the parasite is gone. Then when you get a clutch take the eggs out without soil immediately and transfer to new soil, and lightly cover them with dirt. Keep it humid and they should hatch 2-4 weeks depending how long the snail's been holding them in.

I would not ever feed a WC, the Parasite risk is way high. And Rat Lungworm can even cause menageitis in humans. So they are dangerous, when infected wash your Hands very very well after dealing with WCs.

The Rat Lungworm, can't affect humans, I don't think it can reptiles either, it's in normal parastic way, however it sees us like a Snail, it trys to go into your brain and take over, and Mind Control you to get eaten by a suitable host, when it does that to us it fails. However the damage it does in our brain, in the process causes menageitas is how it was explained to me. So even though a Cham isn't a host, it will still get into the brain and cause problems.

 

[Thatwizard420]

I been told by the snail peeps that the biggest concern Rat Lungworm, will die off after 30-45 days without getting a new host. Simply feeding uninfected foods will be fine.

I don’t quite get that.. so don’t introduce new snail to the WC ones.... separate all eggs... with no new host parasites die or the snail dies?

 

[Thatwizard420]

Snail hunt begins

 

[cyberlocc]

I don’t quite get that.. so don’t introduce new snail to the WC ones.... separate all eggs... with no new host parasites die or the snail dies?

The parasite dies, depending on the level of infection. Hopefully you just don't have it at all. It's rare, about 5% of wild snails have it.

Its host is Rats, and snail's become an intermediate host from coming in contact with Rat Feces.

The snail guys told me. To feed lots of good hydrating foods that will clean the system, like Kale, and Cucumber, and after 30-45 days it should be gone, but just like Chams, it can carry back from the Poop I think so change soil often.


But yes, Eggs remove immediately. Then you can dispose of the WCs by freezing or something. After your babies hatch.

So don't put the WCs in your 30 gallon, put them in a Critter Keeper or something with 2-3 inches of dirt. You don't need many, 4-6 will get you a clucth pretty fast. Keep them wet, keep them fed and they will breed.

A drainage layer is probably a good idea, with their high water needs, but I wouldn't bother with the WCs, but for the 30 gallon, that is likely a good idea.

I am going to convert an Exoterra for them this weekend, and I will make a thread about it. I need to hurry and get the beetles setup done first as they will be here in the next couple days. I am so physced! I have been looking for years for these guys, and finnaly found some. They are rare in the hobby for some reason.

But I get to get these guys home done before they hatch!