Rieppeleon brevicaudatus breeder?

[BSavvy404]

Is there anyone breeding Rieppeleon brevicaudatus?

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Not that I would buy from without a lot more vetting. Don't know if they're actually breeding or W.C.

https://petkeen.com/pygmy-chameleons-for-sale-breeders-in-usa/

https://www.google.com/search?q=bea...AAVyIAVySAQExmAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

 

[Mendez]

You are not going to find and brevs for sale here in the U.S. There are only one or two people who still have brevs, and they are keeping all the offspring to continue their bloodlines for as long as genetically possible without inbreeding. Brevs come from Tanzania which hasn't imported in years. There are some brev populations in Kenya; however, Kenya doesn't export any of this species.

If you are interested in pygmy chameleons, the only available option is to get wild-caught individuals from Madagasar imports. The genus will be Brookesia, the leaf chameleons from Madagascar (not mainland Africa). Brookesia thieli and Brookesia stumpffi have been bred in captivity with regular success, but I'm not sure if anyone is willing to sell their offspring yet. So if you want to breed pygmies, check out those species.

Brookesia superciliaris and Brookesia therezieni can also be purchased from imports; however, keepers have not had too much success hatching out the eggs. Some eggs hatch, but the offspring are very weak. I would recommend staying away from these two species unless you are willing to put in the work to try different methods of incubation.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

You are not going to find and brevs for sale here in the U.S.

Reptmart claims to have Rieppeleon brevicaudatus, albeit Out of Stock.

https://reptmart.com/pygmy-chameleon/

But they also claim to have other species of pygmies.

I defer to your knowledge on that.

 

[Mendez]

Rhampholeon temporalis is another mainland species from Tanzania, so none of those will be for sale anytime soon.

The only species of pygmy chameleon they have that is "out of stock" that might possibly go up for sale on their website is Brookesia superciliaris. However, I'm not too sure how involved this seller is in obtaining pygmy chameleons. I think the majority of the public lost interest in pygmy chameleons, so many of these companies will spend their money on obtaining other more popular species.

I do wish that more people were into pygmies, but at the same time, many experienced keepers are still dialing in their care requirements. So until there are captive-bred individuals for sale, I think the interest in pygmy chameleons will be very limited. But I think the whole attitude towards them may start to change in the coming years.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I think the majority of the public lost interest in pygmy chameleons, so many of these companies will spend their money on obtaining other more popular species.

Any ideas why that would be? Short lifespan? Cyclical popularity (i.e. out of 'fashion' now, but interest waxes & wanes)? Low fecundity? Combination?

Going through the archives for more general information, it appears there were at least a few folks here that were breeding them a decade ago.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/bearded-pygmy-chameleon-eggs.84454/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/pygmy-chameleon-eggs.39081/

I do wish that more people were into pygmies, but at the same time, many experienced keepers are still dialing in their care requirements. So until there are captive-bred individuals for sale, I think the interest in pygmy chameleons will be very limited. But I think the whole attitude towards them may start to change in the coming years.

Why do you think that?

I can see appeal in some situations that might be advanced with some creative marketing (or featured in the right Disney movie ).

• Smaller footprint (more suitable for office/workplace, small apartments)
• Cohabitable
• Lower setup & ongoing costs per individual
• Cuteness factor, as with many small(er) breeds/versions/species of animals.

 

[Mendez]

Any ideas why that would be? Short lifespan? Cyclical popularity (i.e. out of 'fashion' now, but interest waxes & wanes)? Low fecundity? Combination?

Going through the archives for more general information, it appears there were at least a few folks here that were breeding them a decade ago.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/bearded-pygmy-chameleon-eggs.84454/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/pygmy-chameleon-eggs.39081/


Why do you think that?

I can see appeal in some situations that might be advanced with some creative marketing (or featured in the right Disney movie ).

• Smaller footprint (more suitable for office/workplace, small apartments)
• Cohabitable
• Lower setup & ongoing costs per individual
• Cuteness factor, as with many small(er) breeds/versions/species of animals.

You are absolutely spot on in all of this, from the reasons why they aren't popular to why they should/could be more popular in the future.

Low fecundity is a large reason for why they are not a staple in the hobby. Pygmies, depending on species, usually lay a clutch in the two to four egg range. They definitely are not as profitable in the short run as veiled or panther chameleons. Another reason is that they are not as colorful as their larger counterparts. The recent trend is to have the most colorful animal. Leopard geckos, bearded dragons, ball pythons, etc. have all been bred to have crazy morphs through selective breeding. This mindset has definitely bled over into the chameleon world with panther chameleons. The little brown pygmy chameleons never stood a chance. But I also think this is changing. More people have started to go back to the natural look. And more and more people have seen the downsides of selective breeding: breed and breed and breed until you "get what you want" ends up leaving animal shelters overwhelmed due to a surplus of animals.

Everything you listed for why they are/should be appealing is absolutely right. Smaller footprint, cohabitable, less costly, and very cute. I think if people took a second look at pygmy chameleons and really looked at them, they would become enthralled in the miniature world in which they exist. Hopefully I can acquire some pygmies for myself this winter when the Madagascar imports come in (which should be any day now). My goal is to get some B. superciliaris. The success with them has been very limited, but I like a challenge. I've done a lot of research and have a solid plan in mind. I have discussed it with other well-known keepers. Once I get mine, and once they get acclimated, I'll be sure to post some pics of them.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Best of luck with them!

Low fecundity is a large reason for why they are not a staple in the hobby. Pygmies, depending on species, usually lay a clutch in the two to four egg range. They definitely are not as profitable in the short run as veiled or panther chameleons.

This seems counterintuitive and counter to the Law of Supply & Demand (unless demand is that low, which it seems to be).

With what I found in the archives along with the fact that we have a Pygmy Enclosures forum led me to believe there was more interest.

Ah, well... It's the exceptions that make the rules, eh?

 

[Mendez]

Best of luck with them!

Thank you!

This seems counterintuitive and counter to the Law of Supply & Demand (unless demand is that low, which it seems to be).

With what I found in the archives along with the fact that we have a Pygmy Enclosures forum led me to believe there was more interest.

Ah, well... It's the exceptions that make the rules, eh?

I totally agree with you. Haha, definitely, somehow the exceptions do become the rules. Either that or the rules don't allow for exceptions.

Whether it's an exception or I'm just missing something, sometimes species just slip through the gaps. I guess another reason for the lack of mainstream adoption might have been due to the whole "You must use a screen cage or your chameleon will die!" mentality. I think this led to an uncertain identity for pygmy chameleons within the hobby. Since you can keep pygmies (or any species for that matter) in an appropriately-sized, well-vented terrarium, it was hard for the masses to change how they kept animals. There are threads on here from years ago where members would interject a conversation about pygmy chameleons with how they need to be kept in an all-screen cage. The idea that chameleons needed to be kept in screen cages made it hard for a person to translate their skills over to keeping in terrariums. But the times are definitely changing, more people are developing more skills since more keepers are keeping their chameleons more naturalistically in hybrid or well-vented glass terrariums. Speaking of this identity, there seemed to be some interest of pygmies in the dart frog community. But overall, there seemed to be a lack of communication and mingling between chameleon and dart frog keepers. Pygmy care didn't quite fit the all-screen blueprint that chameleon keepers were used to, and they also weren't advertised much to dart frog keepers because importers never recognized them as a potential market.

But in the end, I'm not exactly sure what happened to pygmy chameleons within the hobby. All I can hope is that the future does not repeat the past.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

....
I guess another reason for the lack of mainstream adoption might have been due to the whole "You must use a screen cage or your chameleon will die!" mentality. I think this led to an uncertain identity for pygmy chameleons within the hobby.

I don't think the, "You must [_______] or your chameleon will die!" mentality is limited to pygmies.
Other than that, IDK much about pygmies—just/still learning.

Since you can keep pygmies (or any species for that matter) in an appropriately-sized, well-vented terrarium, it was hard for the masses to change how they kept animals. There are threads on here from years ago where members would interject a conversation about pygmy chameleons with how they need to be kept in an all-screen cage. The idea that chameleons needed to be kept in screen cages made it hard for a person to translate their skills over to keeping in terrariums. But the times are definitely changing, more people are developing more skills since more keepers are keeping their chameleons more naturalistically in hybrid or well-vented glass terrariums.

I think we've both noticed and commented that hybrid enclosures are more of a OSFA than all-screen. TBH, I'm surprised it's taken this long for "the hobby" to figure this out and adopt it (which hasn't quite happened yet). I understand some of the reluctance (though I mayn't agree with it).