Recommendations ??

Harley510

Established Member
Recently just set up my baby pac man frogs enclosure. 10gal tank, cork wood for a hide with frog moss, small water bowl, fake plant, under heat mat set up to a thermostat at 86 for the warm side.

I want to pop in one of my baby pothos plants in there but i don’t wanna have to add any extra heat then there already is. I was thinking a 5 Watt nano daylight bulb but i don’t trust the little bit of heat it gives off. What should i do? The tank is about 3 feet below my chameleon enclosure so the zoo med daylight blue might add a little uva toward it but i still don’t think that’s enough.

I have a 100watt daylight blue with a t5.0 bulb in my terrarium hood that has made my other pothos THRIVE so i’m kinda in a dilemma. I know if i don’t give it any uva the plant will die.

( It’s next to my 2 leopard geckos and my chameleon i also have 3 of my blinds wide open during the day so my room is nice and bright )
 

Harley510

Established Member
Froggers can you lend a hand???

I’m probably gonna get some type of bright LED lamp and have it propped up above the cages on my timer set up. But i’m still looking for other suggestions. my room has good natural light but i want it to be brighter then it already is.
 

Gingero

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have a pothos in my crested gecko’s bioactive enclosure and it’s doing just fine with no lights. He’s set up next to my chameleon’s enclosure so the plant might be getting a tiny uvb from that.
 

Graves923

Chameleon Enthusiast
LED would be your best bet. See how it does without extra light. I had a pothos for a science experiment in middle school that I have not been able to kill. I'm that was 16 years ago and it is currently in my chams cage lol.

If it starts to lose color, it needs extra light.
 

KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Recently just set up my baby pac man frogs enclosure. 10gal tank, cork wood for a hide with frog moss, small water bowl, fake plant, under heat mat set up to a thermostat at 86 for the warm side.

I want to pop in one of my baby pothos plants in there but i don’t wanna have to add any extra heat then there already is. I was thinking a 5 Watt nano daylight bulb but i don’t trust the little bit of heat it gives off. What should i do? The tank is about 3 feet below my chameleon enclosure so the zoo med daylight blue might add a little uva toward it but i still don’t think that’s enough.

I have a 100watt daylight blue with a t5.0 bulb in my terrarium hood that has made my other pothos THRIVE so i’m kinda in a dilemma. I know if i don’t give it any uva the plant will die.

( It’s next to my 2 leopard geckos and my chameleon i also have 3 of my blinds wide open during the day so my room is nice and bright )
I get my grow lights from the bio dude. Hes not cheap but he has freat quality products.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
I get my grow lights from the bio dude. Hes not cheap but he has freat quality products.


Nooo, he is a scammer is what he is.

Seriously. He joined the Bioactive Facebook group, a long time ago. He took the care sheets, took the recipes, asked for advice on perfecting the soil and then started selling it....

He never contributed to nothing, just asked for info he needed to sell to people. He is triffling, profiting off other people's ideas and findings.

His lights are even worse. Rebranded Chinese junk. He says "blue and red are needed to make plants grow" which is semi true, Royal Blue and Photored are helpful. However those are not Royal blue and Photored LEDs, those are basic LEDs, with a phosphur coating to alter their appeared color. They are not correct spectrum just like the rest of the blurple crap on the market.

That's why Arcadia dropped the blue and red in theirs, the 6500ks are more accurate to spectrum than those. You can get much much better lights for the same price and cheaper. Especially if you DIY. With real RBs and Photoreds.

The best places to buy lights, and to find lighting info is on the pot forums. Those people are growing plants worth thousands of dollars, they don't not buy into the China bullcrap, and have the cash to burn and reason to, to buy Spectrometers and such. They take this stuff extremely seriously.

Without access to a spectrometer the best we can do, is measure PuR. You can get a Seneye Reef monitor, for about 200 and that will measure PUR.

The next good tip is any company who does not provide a spectrum analysis of their light, run for the hills.

I can print you to a few, quality fixtures, if DIY isn't your thing.

AI prime LEDs are great (Freshwater, for our Vivs, Always Freshwater)

As are Radions. (There is a DiY Radion puck for sell)

On the more budget side, Finnex Fixtures, have a good reputation as do Current USA. Though won't be as bright as the other 2, and to make them so will cost about the same.
 
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KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Nooo, he is a scammer is what he is.

Seriously. He joined the Bioactive Facebook group, a long time ago. He took the care sheets, took the recipes, asked for advice on perfecting the soil and then started selling it....

He never contributed to nothing, just asked for info he needed to sell to people. He is triffling, profiting off other people's ideas and findings.

His lights are even worse. Rebranded Chinese junk. He says "blue and red are needed to make plants grow" which is semi true, Royal Blue and Photored are helpful. However those are not Royal blue and Photored LEDs, those are basic LEDs, with a phosphur coating to alter their appeared color. They are not correct spectrum just like the rest of the blurple crap on the market.

That's why Arcadia dropped the blue and red in theirs, the 6500ks are more accurate to spectrum than those. You can get much much better lights for the same price and cheaper. Especially if you DIY. With real RBs and Photoreds.

The best places to buy lights, and to find lighting info is on the pot forums. Those people are growing plants worth thousands of dollars, they don't not buy into the China bullcrap, and have the cash to burn and reason to, to buy Spectrometers and such. They take this stuff extremely seriously.

Without access to a spectrometer the best we can do, is measure PuR. You can get a Seneye Reef monitor, for about 200 and that will measure PUR.

The next good tip is any company who does not provide a spectrum analysis of their light, run for the hills.

I can print you to a few, quality fixtures, if DIY isn't your thing.

AI prime LEDs are great (Freshwater, for our Vivs, Always Freshwater)

As are Radions. (There is a DiY Radion puck for sell)

On the more budget side, Finnex Fixtures, have a good reputation as do Current USA. Though won't be as bright as the other 2, and to make them so will cost about the same.

The things you learn. Thanks for the info on the lights. Perfect timing I was able to cancel the order I just made for more grow lights and substrate.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
@cyberlocc whats your opinion on KindLED? I saw them in use at a local exotic plant nursery.

https://www.kindledgrowlights.com/products/x40-x80-bar-led-grow-lights

Those look good, But.

My concern with them, would be the spectrum modifications.

So the theory here, is what we call PUR. So when looking at lights, usually lights are gauged by the amount of PAR they offer at a given distance from the fixture.

PAR is the measurement of Photosynthetically Active Radiation. This means, this how much light reach's the plant that it could theoretically use for photosynthesis.

However researchers have found, that Plants do not use all of the light spectrum to the same degree. Plants, being green, tend to reflect green light away from them. So when we look at PAR, people have decided that it's a bad way to judge a light. While PAR gives us an accurate amount of light being hit by the plant, some of that light is wasted, or rejected or just unused.

So they came up with "PUR", meaning Photosynthetically Usable Radiation. This measures, unlike PAR, the amount of radiation that the plant is recieving that it can and will actually use. The problem with this, is it changes on a per plant basis. While a green plant, is reflecting green light, a Red plant is doing the same for Red, whilst absorbing green. So PUR varies on a per plant basis.

The PUR meter avaible, takes this into account with alot of water plants (it's a water meter, fish tanks, reef tanks) and let's you set and see your PUR on a per Plant basis.

Now, on to why the Blurple, the majority of grown plants, are green. As we know, and thus the majority don't care about Green. In an effort make their lights more efficient, use less power and get the same (DLI, Moles per day of useable light) they made the "Blurple" Light. The theory is, since plants mostly use Blue Light for Vegation and Red light for Flowering, that adding those 2, or using solely those 2 was best, from an effiency standpoint.

The theory, makes sense, in practice it doesn't work very well. It does work, the way nature intended, which has to due with seasonal changes in light. The sun on a spring afternoon is 10k+ so a Blue light, and in the fall, it's closer to 4/5k. Morning sun is also, low in K, as is sunrise, the reds are strong during that time. However, Life can see and tell the difference and the plants use more green and yellows than people tend to provide.

So what happens, is some of harvest growers, who want both, but at seasonal times (they want growth in the spring and summer, and flowering in the fall) they change their lights with the season. This means, when using T5s, to use a 6500k-10k bulbs in the spring and summer, and then switch to 2700-3500k in the fall and winter. And this works out well for them, Flos are by nature Full Spectrum. LEDs are not. So back again, to Blurple they have decided to switch to just blue and just red, to try and save electricity. It's not too bad with a Cham cage, but imagine have a bunch of tall, high light requirements plants, the wattage stacks quickly.

So what I am getting at with my long winded post, those lights look good, they are for plant growth from a reputable plant growth company, and I have seen them brought up in the shady sites. However, in using them, you have to remember they are season specific.

If you look at the options, they offer Flower and Veg. So a light for Spring/Summer, and a light for Fall/Winter, that you will have to swap every season.

If you want something that grows, evenly, with a perfect balance all year, than you are left with 2 options. 1 is 6500k, High CRI. The only way to obtain High CRI, is to balance the spectrum. If you take a blue LED, and coat it with phorurus, it will be White, and it can be dialed into 6500k white, but it's CRI will be trash. Without the addition of the other colors the CRI is not good. In some cases this is useful. Their is specialized LEDs for that very case. Such as Meat, the grocery store has LEDs that lack Red Spectrums, these LEDs are low CRI, but for a reason. Because they lack Red, it alters the way we perceive the color of the meat. It makes the meats reds look better, they glow almost. This is also how blacklights work, their Spectrums are so void of other colors that it makes them glow in the light.

For a Chameleon, we want the opposite, we want High CRI, we want to see the colors the way they truly are. To achieve this, we use a High CRI LED, that also provides use a balanced spectrum of color, they will usually be High in Red and Blue, but that's because so is the Sun. These LEDs tend to cost more, as they are harder to make. Remember how the cheap Blue light was turned to white, that's not a "Full Spectrum"

The other way, is to buy lights, that offer all the colors. Or, they may utilize WW and CW LEDs to balance the colors. Again, these need to be High CRI. So there is 2 ways to go about this, as I mentioned.

1 is how the Radions I mentioned earlier do it. They have an LED makeup, of Cool White, Warm White, Blue (Royal) Red (Photo) and Lime. By using these colors, they can blend them in that pick shape to look like a solid color light, that is adjustable.

What this gives you is the ability to change the spectrum on the fly, or throughout the day, our for the season. CRI, can still and will still be high, from HIGH CRI Base, and the adjustments made. The Radion will tell you, what color tempature your outputted light will be, without needing a Spectrometer.

The other way, is to build or buy a fixture with multiple colors like that, or just WW/CW, and then adjust the spectrum yourself with a Spectrometer or just guess.


So my suggestion on grow lights. And we can TLDR here lol.

Is to either build a High CRI 5600-6500k LED light, or buy one.

Of the top of my head, I can't say that I know of a Bar that fits that bill outside of the Arcadia (not sure the CRI) but the Jungle Dawn spot by Arcadia, is pretty bright (almost 2x brighter than the bar you linked, per). 2 of those, should light up your cage pretty well.

Or if you want more light, with less wattage, check out the DIY "EZ bright" blog I just made. It will offer more lumens, for the same wattage (almost 3x as much) and a better spread for not much more $$$ but requires a little DIYing. (It's not too bad)

Or to build or buy a customizable spectrum fixture.
Finnex has some good ones, the Planted+ and so does Current USA, as well as the more expensive Radions and AI primes. My suggestion if you want the sunrise and sunsets ect, easily.

Go with the AI prime here. https://www.amazon.com/Aqua-Illumin...hd+freshwater&qid=1563155078&s=gateway&sr=8-3

One of those in the center of your cage, would be a good amount of light, likely enough for most plants you will likely have.


The LEDs you linked, are good, but need to be switched depending on time of the year, and will alter the colors of your enclosure and Cham. However their supporting reds and blues, are at least quality ones and in the correct spectrum.


Now if this is for the Angrecums cage that we discussed, depending where you mount them, you might want DIY.

Angrecums while being rainforest plants, as I am sure you know grow on trees on the top of the canopy. They want seriously high light. Which makes alot of the options just discussed lack luster, and I would go straight to 4JD spots or 2 COB diy, per 24x24.
 
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cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh so sorry to DP, but the post above is already long haha.

So on the KindLEDs, you can see the grow/flower models Spectrums. Plants don't care, but Chams do, and you do. You don't want "Blurple".


This is the spectrum of an AI prime (in balanced mode), and is more resembleblence of what you want.

Also @dshuld my shady forums frequenter, might know of a Bar. And you could also DIY a bar from the strips he likes.

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty, DIY is truly the way to go. Nice LEDs are expensive, and that's hard to justify for alot of premade fixture company's, profits are lower when using quality parts.

That's why the Veros I am going to recommend, and the Citizens that Dshuld likes, are almost triple the lumens per watt of a JDspots cob. The JDSpots, use cheaper smaller cobs and overdrive them, where we buy more expensive nicer cobs and underdrive them.

To give you an idea, a T5HO is 97 lumens per watt. A JD spot is 89 Lumens per watt, and my Veros are 159 lumens per watt.
 

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KobaOregonherper

Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh so sorry to DP, but the post above is already long haha.

So on the KindLEDs, you can see the grow/florlwer Spectrums. Plants don't care, but Chams do, and you do. You don't want "Blurple".


This is the spectrum of an AI prime, and is more resembleblence of what you want.

I actually just got done reading this entire article on NEHerps. I mount most of them on the trees nearer the canopy, since in general theyre epiphytic. Ive been growing them for years now, but ive alway just gone with recommendations on grow lights. Holy crap wow, so much information. Now that I understand the light levels better and that its not just about the lm or color temp (which ive always known to keep around 6500k) but also the PAR. This is some seriously needed information. Very much appreciated. My wife however is going to be pissed $$$ lol.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
I actually just got done reading this entire article on NEHerps. I mount most of them on the trees nearer the canopy, since in general theyre epiphytic. Ive been growing them for years now, but ive alway just gone with recommendations on grow lights. Holy crap wow, so much information. Now that I understand the light levels better and that its not just about the lm or color temp (which ive always known to keep around 6500k) but also the PAR. This is some seriously needed information. Very much appreciated. My wife however is going to be pissed $$$ lol.

DIY :).

It's cheaper. The 2 cob build I posted came out to I think 200 bucks, very little to no soldering required, and 20k lumens for 100ws.

Me and Dshuld been hanging out on the shady forums the past year, with people who take their plants very very seriously. I don't partake in their recreational activities, but I love picking their brains on lighting.

40k lumens, and when done will be controllable with WWs added and Blues for spectrum changing. A few hundred bucks. My phone refuses to depict how bright these are lol.

But from rough calculation, I am getting around 200 PAR at the bottom of the cage, which is 46inches from the LEDs. That would be 8 T5s at a total of 400ws, this is 4, Veros at 200ws.

They won't be full brightness for much of the day, once a Cham goes in though. Trying to water harden some of my plants and making sure my CPs get good lights so this is on full for 6 hours per day, and a T5 and a JD spot pointed at the CP are on 14.

When done, they will be this bright for a few hours, in midday, only. And total, morning, to midday to evening ramping of Spectrums and brightness, during the day, depending on season.
 

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Cipher

New Member
It’s nice to have a searchable forum and people discussing Radions. I have 3 from my 210 gallon reef tank and am no longer using them. I just ordered a 24x24x48 cage and will be getting my first chameleon, may just use one of my gen4 XR30w pros...just have to figure out the mounting...unless I lay it on the screen (unsure how that would affect the led output though). It’s nice to have a sunrise and sunset via lighting.
 
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