Recirculating/recycling water from misting?

[XenoMorph2049]

What is the general consensus about recycling the water collected from misting? I'm currently in the planning phases of making an enclosure for a Jackson's and am toying with the idea of having a filter in the drainage collection bin to allow the nitrification process to clean the water. Is there any reason this wouldn't work? I'm hoping to have a lift pump bring it back up to a homemade "rain system" on a timer for a controlled "irrigation"

 

[Lathis]

I think people have tried various methods to do what you describe with little success. I don't know if anyone has kept this method in place after testing it out. From my experience, the drain water is ridiculously nasty, especially after percolating through all the plants and etc. I would also worry about bio-contaminants - not sure if filters only take out particulates or if there are bacteria/micro-organism filters out there for this application.

Refilling and dumping drain buckets is not really that big of a pain in the grand scheme of cham keeping. Save yourself the money on filters and invest in a really good misting system and drainage.

 

[Saldarya]

Considering that the nitrification process would take at least 6+ weeks to get established due to the low PH of the water being circulated, the amount of funk that was produced before the bacteria kicked in (assuming it worked at all) would be very harmful to the animals.

HTH

 

[Mike Fisher]

Don't do it, unless you have a degree in waste water treatment you can make your chameleon sick. You won't be wasting that much water if you time your mist cycles properly. I currently have six enclosures going and I only dump out about 5 gallons of waste water a month. That's equivalent to one extra toilet flush a month. If you are worried about your water bill, low flow shower heads and a newer more efficient toilet will be a better investment.

 

[Carlton]

Considering that the nitrification process would take at least 6+ weeks to get established due to the low PH of the water being circulated, the amount of funk that was produced before the bacteria kicked in (assuming it worked at all) would be very harmful to the animals.

HTH

I agree. Plus, trying to keep your misting nozzles clear will be a headache. Those nozzles are pretty fine.

 

[XenoMorph2049]

Well, the thought was to have the system set up, running, and cycled well before the animal was introduced. A equally messy fish or two would be used to cycle and establish the bacteria bed within the filter system itself, and removed after the animal was introduced. The collection bin would be on 24/7 filtration, and a lift pump on a timer to lift the water up to a sheet of the "diamond" light diffuser with holes drilled in the centers of the diamonds so it could flow through at a suitable rate, collect on the peaks of the diamonds, creating a "rain" effect. Or lifted to a fogger with the panel above it where it could collect and "rain", and still have a fog as well.

The purpose is not exactly to conserve water, as much as it is to create a semi-self sustaining environment that would closely reflect nature. While I love what can be done with foggers/misters, I would think a "rain" system might be more natural. This would also be beneficial in that we have some pretty nasty hard water, and would allow the use of the spring water I currently use for my snakes for misting. As much as an impatient individual as I am, this is a project I'm really looking forward to taking my time with this enclosure. plans are currently sitting at 4'-6' long, 2'-3' deep, and 6' tall, with a foot at the base being under the substrate for the filtration system. No, I don't have a degree in waste water management, but I have successfully kept a reef tank up and running If any of you are familiar with aquariums, the proposed filter is a Eheim Classic. Thank you all for the feedback, and keep it coming. While I'd rather not be shot down, I'd rather the animal be healthy and thriving .

 

[Mike Fisher]

No, I don't have a degree in waste water management, but I have successfully kept a reef tank up and running

Would you drink the water out of the reef tank? I'm sure someone can pull it off, but I've yet to see it outside of a professional arena, like a zoological exhibit where they pay professionals to set it up and maintain it on a daily basis.

Maybe you are that guy, but you must be honest with yourself because otherwise you are experimenting with your chameleons health.

 

[XenoMorph2049]

I would like to state that I am new to Cham's, and definitely want the one I get to be in the best possible environment. I am ALSO not trying to argue, just trying to understand what the best approach would be for my situation. : )

As I see it, having a good PH balanced water supply that does not have all the minerals that LOVE to cause that lovely calcium crusting on everything, yet is "processed" through an aerobic bacteria bed to break down the wastes, could be a better option than tap water. I live in FL and where I'm at, water comes out of the sink practically cement.

Having gone through aquatic turtles, an awesome female water dragon, a slew of tree frogs, one thing I have learned is, if you can smell the water, something's amiss. This is even true in aquariums I've found. The turtles I've had never smelled like they were living in a swamp, much less a toilet bowl.

I understand there completely different, but when something is living in the water source it has, it can be that much more sensitive to the water quality. With an adequate water supply ( to initially dilute waste products), and a properly sized and established aerobic bacteria bed, the waste products would essentially become fertilizer for the plants, and there would be nothing for the anaerobic bacteria to feed on, thus grow with, and the constant circulation should keep bad "bugs" down.

Once again, please dont see this as arguing, as I am looking for "holes" in my idea, and I'm sure I'm missing something blatantly obvious, and I DO value the experience and input I have seen on this forum.

 

[Saldarya]

The nitrosomas and Nitrobacter species of bacteria that you associate with the reef biology may or may not be able to deal with the system you are trying to create and the heavy insect diet these animals have (as opposed to heavy protein reef waste which breaks down easily into nitrate and phosphate which the bacteria readily consume)

In addition, it is one thing for the bacteria to colonize enough to deal with a few fish through cycling, it is a different thing entirely for it to deal with a few BIG poops from an adult chameleon.

I think something like this MIGHT be able to be done with a large vivarium with pygmies, but I just dont see it working in the manner you described nad think you will do more harm than good.

 

[XenoMorph2049]

The nitrosomas and Nitrobacter species of bacteria that you associate with the reef biology may or may not be able to deal with the system you are trying to create and the heavy insect diet these animals have (as opposed to heavy protein reef waste which breaks down easily into nitrate and phosphate which the bacteria readily consume)

In addition, it is one thing for the bacteria to colonize enough to deal with a few fish through cycling, it is a different thing entirely for it to deal with a few BIG poops from an adult chameleon.

I think something like this MIGHT be able to be done with a large vivarium with pygmies, but I just dont see it working in the manner you described nad think you will do more harm than good.

Thank you! I hadn't even considered the "waste composition" of the diet, although, would this not be equivalent to a freshwater system where insects are part of the diet?
Also the waste output was one of the considerations when I was thinking of goldfish to cycle the system.....carp are NASTY

 

[Saldarya]

Thank you! I hadn't even considered the "waste composition" of the diet, although, would this not be equivalent to a freshwater system where insects are part of the diet?
Also the waste output was one of the considerations when I was thinking of goldfish to cycle the system.....carp are NASTY

In comparing the diet of fish versus reptiles, the waste of fish are significantly higher in water in so far as composition of waste. In contrast, reptile waste is all solid, even the urates.

The only way I could see what you proposing working is if the volume of water was so great that dilution plays as big a factor as nitrification.

Also, reptiles are going to have a much bigger issue with bacteria on the skin surfaces as opposed to fish which rarely have dermal bacteria infections outside of a wound that gets infected.

But you mention your main goal being rainfall, that can be achieved without a filtering system and pure water can be achieved by using RO/DI water which I assume you have if you have a reef tank.

There are MANY possible issues in your plan and no real upside.

HTH,

 

[Mike Fisher]

could be a better option than tap water. I live in FL and where I'm at, water comes out of the sink practically cement.

A lot of people on here do reverse osmosis or just use distilled. Where I live the water is pretty good but still has flouride and chlorine in it, so sometimes I use rain water. Plenty of that around these parts.

Nobody is arguing here, this subject comes up about once a week and the answer is always the same no matter which experienced cham keeper/breeder you ask. Today is my day to cover this subject, lol.

Again, there is probably a way to do it safely, but the amount of infrastructure and maintenance involved is probably not worth the effort for one or two chameleons, and if you get it wrong you expose your chameleon to sickness, disease and possibly death.

It is up to you.

 

[XenoMorph2049]

Given the omnivorous diet of chameleons, if the catch bin were to contain "X" goldfish, say comets, it is very likely that the chameleon waste would become part of there diet. A few snails, say, Malaysian trumpet snails, would offer further cleanup of wastes. Add in a UV sterilizer for good measure......

I apologize, I know I'm reaching.......

What is the constancy of there waste like? I know you said solid, but is it like a leopard gecko? I apologize for not catching the other threads, I searched and dug back a few pages, but didn't see anything that seem related.

 

[Muddyfeet]

not discounting your knowledge.. but heck as "water conservation" is a biggie with me, I skip all the details and use my chams cage, drain water to water house plants in the winter, and gardens in the summer Just NOT veggies.. in case.. I use a drip system, so can hold a lot of water till needed..

neat idea.. timelines for the full process.. do worry me.. and the holding tank size because of this would be a logistical nightmare.. not like you can do so and have waste water then ok water easily next day or cycle.. a RO system give you the immediate turn around.. but also has a discharge rate.. so kills the water conservation aspect for me

can it be done? of course heck most drinking water is processed... just the volume and time needed?? that would be my question.. if going for not just filtered and recirculated, but pathogen free... filtered.. water..

 

[XenoMorph2049]

LOL, knowledge.....I usually know just enough to do maximum damage . While looking for pinholes, I'll miss the crater 6" from my nose!

One of the thing I've always hated about RO units is the "waste" they create doesn't come close to the usable water created. I believe what I will do is set up the collection bin the way I had intended, EXCEPT for the whole lift pump to recycle the water again as rain/mist for the cage. I will perform water changes as needed, then in a few moths time AFTER them chameleon is added, take a water sample down to be tested for pathogens, germs, gremlins, rhinoceroses, ect.

 

[ataraxia]

With the stated filtration set up that is "thought of" to be in place before the chameleon comes along. The one where gold fish is playing a factor. Ask yourself...Would i drink the water?

Once you see how nasty the water is in the collection bucket (Color/looks just like beer or human urine). You will rethink the idea. Its great to be green but your not going to be able to replicate a self sustaining micro environment in captivity. You will see in due time. You will need to provide fresh water.

One good thing mentioned...Making it rain over your chameleon is a good choice.

 

[fuzzhc]

Don't know if this is similar to what your looking for, without the misting system. But in one of my cages I have a lift pump which circulates water up to a bottle which drips down and back to the pump. I change the water out daily and I've yet to see a build up of any nasty stuff or any bugs/feces get into the water. I just hand mist on top of that for humidity

 

[Carlton]

LOL, knowledge.....I usually know just enough to do maximum damage . While looking for pinholes, I'll miss the crater 6" from my nose!

One of the thing I've always hated about RO units is the "waste" they create doesn't come close to the usable water created. I believe what I will do is set up the collection bin the way I had intended, EXCEPT for the whole lift pump to recycle the water again as rain/mist for the cage. I will perform water changes as needed, then in a few moths time AFTER them chameleon is added, take a water sample down to be tested for pathogens, germs, gremlins, rhinoceroses, ect.

My RO system has an auxillary pump that returns the "wasted" water back into the house supply so there's a lot less usable water going down the drain.

 

[XenoMorph2049]

Don't know if this is similar to what your looking for, without the misting system. But in one of my cages I have a lift pump which circulates water up to a bottle which drips down and back to the pump. I change the water out daily and I've yet to see a build up of any nasty stuff or any bugs/feces get into the water. I just hand mist on top of that for humidity

This sounds close to what I had intended, but on a larger scale. As in 1/3 to 1/2 of the width of the cage to present a more natural "rain" like environment. Given the amount of water this could potentially take, this was one of the main reasons for wanting to filter and recirculate. I've since gone through and, along with the advice given here, read the official "poop" thread in the Health section and completely ruled this out. Between the continual spiking of the water quality, and the possibility of who-knows-what potentially leaching out of the root ball of the plants and into the water supply they'd be in continual contact with, I've decided on a better system.....I think .

Current plans are to use a ultrasonic fogger aimed up onto a sheet of the "diamond" type light diffuser, where it should at least partially condensate, drip down the peaks between each "diamond" and "rain". This way I can get a fog AND rain effect. I'm thinking of using a SLIGHTLY higher wattage heat bulb aimed at an angle from the "dry" side, into the "rainy" side. Using half the enclosure to rain, half dry, with heat running on approximately half of the dry, into the rainy, this SHOULD give me a range of temps and "dampness" levels from dry-room temp, dry-heated, wet-room temp, and wet-heated. The heat should also aid in slightly raising the humidity.

Initially I was playing with multiple cage sizes, but believe the a 3' X3' X5' on a 1' riser would give me a balance of room and "zoning" ability. 3X3 gives me a good 9sq ft base, even better than the 8sq ft a 2X4 base would give. Any ideas/feed back is more than welcome .

And Carlton, that's awesome, back when I was into it, you basically just watered plants or w/e with the RO byproduct .