Environmental Parameters needed for male Ambilobe panther to develop fully automated environmental control system - prototype v1 stage

[landro]

I'm refining a fully automated system that runs entirely on conditioned air, either heated, cooled or fresh outside air (if outside temp greater than environment temp it is added to the element heater fan (space heater), else, if outside temp lower than environment temp it is added to the evaporative cooler fan). with this I can have Absolem's environment more than 10 degrees lower than the room temp, but to do so I need to direct the air into his space - the environment is open, only one side is mesh screened and that is soon to be removed, he essentially has all the space from floor to ceiling to move/climb, no way to reach his lights at the top or any heat source so no risk of burn. tons of moss and plants so humidity is maintained.

My main concern is this, I've read in more than one place that a constant draft cause respiratory issues, and at the same time lack of air movement (stale air) will cause respiratory issues. so, what is too much air movement, everything moves at a steady light breeze, low enough for the humidifier fog to swirl around the environment and then dissipate into the room.

I've noticed that since switching to the temperature conditioned air system that he tries to get as close as he can to the source of the warm airflow at around his bed time.

also, temperatures - there is so much contradictory/confusing info online:
what actually is ideal temperatures for a panther (Ambilobe) male.
basking spot - some experts claim 95 degrees max, but this forum appears to agree no warmer than 85, with others saying no warmer than 80 ?!? - I keep his at 85'ish
sometimes caps out at 87 but he still seems fine with this
Ambient top to bottom - I try to keep it around 75 degrees at the middle/top of the space where he mostly hangs out, with a variance of 1 degree in each direction (74-76)
Night Time - this one is especially hard to get accurate info on, some experts say no lower than 70, some say must be lower than 68 higher than 60 to allow for deep sleep
how are we supposed to know what to believe/trust?

Other parameters needed /that can be accommodated if relevant include:
wind speeds/airflow rate - not currently controlled, aiming for the feel of a slight breeze
ambient air temp - target 75 - fluctuates between 70 and about 78 during the day
shade/ground/radiant temp - no current setting/monitor, v2 prototype will have precise even ground surface temperature control with monitoring managed by separate upward airflow from below - not any kind of element
basking temps - daytime target is 85, occasionally up to 87.5
Humidity - not currently set but daytime range > 60% maintained, nighttime range much higher
cloud cover / UVB intensity / variation in basking spot temps - currently lighting is dimmed 30 seconds before mist rain
mist/light rainfall schedule - currently 2 x 20 second duration over 30 minutes, 3 times a day during daylight
fog schedule - currently on continuous :1am-6am, for the remaining time interval of on for 4 minutes, off for 20

Part of why I'm asking is I building custom chameleon environments to order, and I'm in the process of fully automating them. I'd really like to figure out the exact ranges/settings etc. to use as default configuration for the environmental control system - I'm prototyping a series of completely open designs. I started with a corner design, with the CornerV2 prototype build starting tomorrow. next design would be an island a completely open from all directions. the control system is custom built & programmed, the intent is for it to take care of all environmental requirements, including irrigation and flora maintenance systems. Integrated into the smart home platform of your choice - apple home/Alexa/google home and others

One thought I've had is to essentially base the control system parameters on daily meteorological data from the region of origin for the species, so, for Absolem I would pull the daily weather data for Ambilobe Madagascar and replicate those conditions as closely as possible for the upcoming day, so it would trail about 12 hours behind real weather. all the way down to matching wind speeds, air temp, shade temp, basking temps, humidity, rainfall, cloud cover/solar penetration, lunar cycle and more as needed/relevant for the selected region, to match hour by hour or at even shorter intervals. any expert input here would be greatly appreciated, I'm trying to replicate as much as I can or stay as close as possible to ideal, whichever would be best for the chameleon. the goal is to provide best/preferred conditions in stead of just tolerable/best effort

Here's his current configuration/current, measurements taken 2 hours after his sunset, I haven't published these to my apple home interface yet but it is doable for all devices/sensors on here

 

[MissSkittles]

Got to admit you lost me thru most of this. My poor simple mind! I can however tell you that the ideal basking temp for an adult male panther is 85F. For females and youngsters, we keep them a bit cooler at 80F. Much of the confusion is because the previous standards had higher temps, until we learned that keeping chameleons at higher temps (like in the 90’s) is not so great for them, nor very natural. It is more natural to have a cooler and humid night. In nature, temps cool down considerably and then humidity rises due to heavy fog and this helps to hydrate chams. However, in captivity, because we don’t have the unrestricted airflow that nature does, we don’t want to raise humidity at night unless we can achieve temps below at least 68F for fear of increasing RI risk.
For help with the rest, maybe someone like @nightanole can help.

 

[landro]

Got to admit you lost me thru most of this. My poor simple mind! I can however tell you that the ideal basking temp for an adult male panther is 85F. For females and youngsters, we keep them a bit cooler at 80F. Much of the confusion is because the previous standards had higher temps, until we learned that keeping chameleons at higher temps (like in the 90’s) is not so great for them, nor very natural. It is more natural to have a cooler and humid night. In nature, temps cool down considerably and then humidity rises due to heavy fog and this helps to hydrate chams. However, in captivity, because we don’t have the unrestricted airflow that nature does, we don’t want to raise humidity at night unless we can achieve temps below at least 68F for fear of increasing RI risk.
For help with the rest, maybe someone like @nightanole can help.

this helps a LOT, so, your thoughts on conditioned air with high airflow? OK, healthy, super healthy, or also risks RI?? even if its a cool night breeze

 

[nightanole]

The problem with airflow causing URI is when it becomes a "swamp cooler". AKA you create the ideal environment for growing mushrooms etc.

What you would want to simulate is madagascar right before mating season. This after monsoon season and before the dry season. Its basically peak chameleon meat production time as the environment can sustain the fastest weight addition to the chams before they become fertile. And well after mating and egg laying, 90-95% croak during the dry season.

As Missskittles stated, people keep researching cham temps. We know the upper limit is around 95-97f for basking, but we are starting to notice they also work out great in the 80-85f range. So people are now researching the lower limits before they start getting digestive issues etc.


For your thing, you are going to come into contact with a few issues. One, is a protein film and evental mold starting on most surfaces. two will be cleaning the humidifier etc so it doesnt turn into a legionnaires factory. Three will be pink algae or pink bacteria growth. Finally some of the previous can be resolved (along with your drafts cause uri) with an air exchanger. It will take some time to find one small enough for say one room, but it will help protect against causing the closed system from turning into a mushroom pit. it will exchange the air sever times even an hour, without change the heat/humidity level. And then you wont have to worry about a draft.

 

[landro]

The problem with airflow causing URI is when it becomes a "swamp cooler". AKA you create the ideal environment for growing mushrooms etc.

What you would want to simulate is madagascar right before mating season. This after monsoon season and before the dry season. Its basically peak chameleon meat production time as the environment can sustain the fastest weight addition to the chams before they become fertile. And well after mating and egg laying, 90-95% croak during the dry season.

As Missskittles stated, people keep researching cham temps. We know the upper limit is around 95-97f for basking, but we are starting to notice they also work out great in the 80-85f range. So people are now researching the lower limits before they start getting digestive issues etc.


For your thing, you are going to come into contact with a few issues. One, is a protein film and evental mold starting on most surfaces. two will be cleaning the humidifier etc so it doesnt turn into a legionnaires factory. Three will be pink algae or pink bacteria growth. Finally some of the previous can be resolved (along with your drafts cause uri) with an air exchanger. It will take some time to find one small enough for say one room, but it will help protect against causing the closed system from turning into a mushroom pit. it will exchange the air sever times even an hour, without change the heat/humidity level. And then you wont have to worry about a draft.

Oh it's very much the opposite of a closed system, I'll be running a low speed fresh /outside air intake 100% of the time. With moving warm or cool air that will partially use this as air source. Other than the corner this env has no other walls/screens/glass, at ground level there barriers he can't climb so if he decides to go down to ground level the only place to go is back up into the env. Thought process from the start was always absolutely no stale/reused air, with variety in conditions enough to dry things out frequently. All surfaces will be moss covered except for climbing branches