Really Annoyed

[jojackson]

I recently sold off a healthy clutch of young bearded dragons. All were robust, eating well, hydrated right up to minute they left me. They were 5 weeks old. All buyers gave assurance they knew what they were doing and all of them were drilled extensively on their care, face to face.
On tuesday night a guy bought the last two, and like the rest, assured me he knew what he was doing. The very next morning (wed) he takes them to a vet. Nothing unusual there, indeed I encourage it, however, the guy says they are not eating (they were the day before), one of them had time to eat a few crickets before he took it to the vet.
Now this vet, who is supposed to be a reptile expert, has taken advantage of the guy , has hospitalised these two baby beardys, claims to have them in intensive care where they will be till monday atleast.

So this guy rings up, wants me to pay the vet cost for these two beardys which cost him $40 each, which will probably run to near $1000 by monday.
I know these animals were healthy, I dont sell an animal I wouldnt buy.
No complaints, indeed quite a few happy calls from the buyers of the rest of the clutch.

Now since they are 5 weeks old, on the off chance of some unknown problem, I offer every buyer The following:
If there is a problem in the first 6 months, not caused by husbandry, I will pay the vet fees. Worst case, if an animal should die, again not the fault of the new owner, I will replace or refund.
I have never had this happen, ever! Ive had babies killed accidently by young children, replaced in good will (accidents happen), but never had a complaint.

This vet claims to be force feeding these 2 babies and pumping drugs into them, which sets off alarms to begin with.
Fair enough, these babies dont get vet checked before sale, but after 20 years plus breeding, im confident I know a thing or two, and my garantee always applys, But i think this vet is taking the guy for a ride, and now he wants me to pay.

I know these lizards were healthy and eating and well hydrated. I have another clutch due and Im happy to replace them, but Im not paying this ripoff vet, who will probly kill them with the 'treatment' after which the gullible buyer will suggest he is vindicated and 'there must've been something wrong with them'. There dosent seem to be room for a second opinion from another vet , which I would ask for, but damadge may have been done by now from force feeding these tiny lizards and stress.

Im really upset about this, I had my doubts about this guy, but gave him the benefit of doubt. You cant control the care of animal when it leaves your hands. This guy only had it for hours, literally.

 

[Thompson]

Wow what a vet! I'm sorry to here about what happend to your baby

 

[Syn]

It's too bad there are vets out there that will do this. Unfortunately there is a reason most people will not offer a guarantee that includes paying for vet bills.
If you do continue the "contract" of paying for all vet bills, then you should only say if they go to a specific vet (that you trust 100%).

I suppose it's a learning experience.

 

[lisa h]

That's so sad for your babies. I'd offer the cost of the babies back and that's it; I don't know if I'd even give this person a replacement. I wonder how that vet sleeps at night? Either he thinks he knows what he's doing (and doesn't), or he's a great ripoff artist. Be sure to let the word spread to other herp people that you know. Good luck with the situation, however you choose to proceed. Keep us posted.

 

[Syn]

Be sure to let the word spread to other herp people that you know. Good luck with the situation, however you choose to proceed. Keep us posted.

Agreed. Make sure that herp people around you know the situation, he should not be allowed to continue what he's doing. Better, yet, meet the guy face to face and have a talk with him. I would LOVE to hear his explanations for what he's doing.

 

[lisa h]

Good point Syn. The vet might need to be educated, or straightened out. Either way, not a bad idea.

 

[Chameleonator]

If you want to be vindicated and prove that this vet is not ethical, I would take one of your healthy beardie to your trusted vet to confirm it is healthy. Then take that same beardie to the alleged unethical vet and see if pulls the same stunt. It comes down to if you want to go through all that trouble and money to take a chance to prove your point.

You know as well when it comes down to it, you have no leg to stand on. So no point of confronting the vet. Other than your words what real proof do you have that they were healthy (don't get me wrong, I don't question you sold the guy healthy beardies, I believe you did and the vet is setting off red flags). It'll be your word against his. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can talk till you are blue in the face and the only thing that will matter is having proof that the vet is a quack.

Sorry to hear that you are going through all that!

 

[jojackson]

After some perspective and in a calmer state of mind....
I dont think the vet is deliberately dodgy as such. This particular vet is well respected and reccomended in the feild. Im inclined to beleive the guy wasn't questioned too closely, and perhaps the vet felt it would unethical Not to give such 'care' as he could , even if that meant basically babysitting it and running a few test for the guys peace of mind. After all its a buisness. I spoke to an assistant and the vet is not avail till monday, but I will definately be having a chat then.
What I dont know, is what the guy did with them overnight. I took him at his word that he knew what he was doing, but for all I know he was 'cooking' them overnight and by the following morning they may well have been dehydrated and in bad shape.
It dosent take much with such tiny animals.
I tend to think this is probly the case since the vet nurse mentioned dehydration, and they certainly were not the night before.
There is no way im paying this idiots vets bill. I wasnt even extended the courtesy of a call till thursday. I offer every buyer ongoing help and advice and make a point of reminding them to call me if they need to.
I aim to find out what this guy told the vet since im sure had he told the truth, and had not done something drastic overnight, the vet would not be doing anything for a lizard in good health that was purchased just hrs before because it 'had'nt eaten yet'.
Any vet worth the name explain correct care and send you home.

If you did everything right and there was actually something unnoticed wrong with your purchase, fair enough, im happy to take care of the bill, but not if failure to head advice ,a bad descision (before which the breeder was not consulted) and deception caused the problem. You cant expect the breeder to pay for your mistake/s after you deceived them to beleive you knew what you were doing, or to pay your vet bill to basically babysit an animal you should be caring for.
If you dont know how to care for an animal, dont buy it.

I will keep this updated monday.

 

[sandrachameleon]

How unfortunate.

One of the hardest parts about breeding is knowing many of the animals you carefully raise and sell will go to imperfect owners despite your best efforts. And some of those animals will die from inadequate care or inadequate vets.

You may want to change the guarantee to say you will share the cost of a vet bill, at a pre-approved vet. Or say that if the problem is a result of its breeding you will pay, but if a result of the care received post-purchase you will not.

 

[jojackson]

Update: Finally spoke to vet just now, but she was gagged. Apparently a poo sample was presented that was tested and found traces of protozoans. It was treated with flagyl. According to the vet, this particular protozoan is transfered via both live food and water sources aswell. She said they replicate rapidly and there was no way to tell if it had it before he got it, or if it came from his water source or food, Or maybe poo from other lizards.
The guy asked her to reveal only the test result, nothing else.

I couldnt find out:

name/type of protozoan
lizards condition on presentation
Anything about his husbandry or conditions he was keeping it.
If the sample was from the beardys I sold him even (he did saying he was buying some elsewhere aswell to have non related dragons for breeding later), or even if it was from the beardy treated.
And no way to know if the one treated was one of the two I sold him even.

Nothing, nada. Customer confidentiality or something.

I did find he lied to her about when he got them (he claimed several days before)
And that he specifically asked for his sample be tested because he claimed it wasnt eating.
He has my number but hasnt called to speak to me once, just a txt mssg asking me to pay the bill. No call in the four days between getting it and taking it to the vet, nada.
So unless he allows the vet to tell me anything I want to know, Im simply not paying.
I will be having my own dragons feceal tested, just in case, but I smell a rat.

Why would not allow the vet to tell me anything other than the test result?

 

[Syn]

So unless he allows the vet to tell me anything I want to know, Im simply not paying.

Good on you! I would also tell him that you are not doing anything until you get your bearded tested by another vet, and you are there when this happens.

 

[GoFast]

I also wouldn't even consider paying anything until he actually calls you. How the hell do people expect to be taken seriously when all they will do is text you?

Secondly, I don't even think there was a problem to begin with. It is quite normal for a dragon to not eat for a few days after relocation.

Sounds like someone's trying to screw you....

 

[Syn]

You know what I just realized? The vet not being able to tell you everything is preventing you from knowing if it was your fault or his fault, thus relieving you from all duties of paying the vet. Simply tell the person that bought the bearded that you need all information or you are "innocent until proven guilty".

 

[laurie]

Did you ever want to just strangle stupid people? Why do people say they know what they are doing, then go home and completely disregard it? I am sorry you ran across a loser, it happens to all of us at one time or another.
You might ask one of the others who bought beardies if they could have a fecal done, that might solve the issue.

 

[jojackson]

Laurie thats a great Idea, Infact a few were sold to a local paralympian bike racer (and medal winner- Go girl!) and shes reported hers are doing great.
Thing is according to the vet, this bug multiplys rapidly, she said she found it present, but not in great numbers and its just as possible it may have picked it up from its new enviroment.
While the vet is honoring her confidentiality agreement, I felt there was quite a bit that remained unsaid. Anyway, he hasnt called still or txt again so far.
Will have mine tested since the watersource is the same for aults and babies alike, likewise the food source, but im sure it will negative. Two remaining babies from the same clutch are thriving, eating well, growing, drinking pooping and running around just fine.
Thanks for the responses, first time this ever happened and I just had to vent.
cheers

I also wouldn't even consider paying anything until he actually calls you. How the hell do people expect to be taken seriously when all they will do is text you?

Its a bit rude I think not to speak to someone personally. I hate txt.

Secondly, I don't even think there was a problem to begin with. It is quite normal for a dragon to not eat for a few days after relocation.

I know, even though im sure given correct conditions they would have, But no way of knowing what he did.

Sounds like someone's trying to screw you....

Agreed. Thanks for the support.

 

[sandrachameleon]

...Why would not allow the vet to tell me anything other than the test result?

Likely because Australia, like Canada, has very good (strict) Privacy laws.

 

[jojackson]

I meant the new owner asked the vet specifically not to tell me anything except the result.

 

[serenitystarlite]

Do you have a written contract with this guy stating you'll pay for the vet visit if the animal is sick? If so, how is it worded? If it was a verbal contract, then you have the right to not pay the vet bills if there is no way to prove the animal was sick when you sold it

 

[DJ Richey Rich]

You might want to talk to ur vet she might beable to contact his vet to find out wats really going on

 

[jojackson]

Just a verbal agreement I offer every buyer, to effect..

Now since they are 5 weeks old, on the off chance of some unknown problem, I offer every buyer The following:
If there is a problem in the first 6 months, not caused by husbandry, I will pay the vet fees. Worst case, if an animal should die, again not the fault of the new owner, I will replace or refund.

You might want to talk to ur vet she might beable to contact his vet to find out wats really going on

I dont think thats likely, vet or not. I ask several times and each time she re-iterrated that she had been asked to say nothing but diagnosis. She wouldnt say if it was sick or not eating , or looked unhealthy in anyway at her office, she wouldnt say zip.