Prolapses: How common?

[leid]

After being here less than a month, I've read enough prolapse stories to knock my socks off. How common is prolapses in chameleons? Why does this occur? Is it a genetic predisposition/bad genes? Perhaps bowel tract complications? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. Also, which locale seems to have the most instances of prolapses? And finally, what are measures we may take to decrease the risks of this happening with our chameleons?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I think one very common cause in the hobby is over feeding.
The majority of owners (new and old) feed their chameleons too much (in my opinion).

-Brad

 

[leid]

Brad--

How much is way too much? Does this mean their organs grow faster than their bodies allow?

 

[summoner12]

Brad--

How much is way too much? Does this mean their organs grow faster than their bodies allow?

the organs become pushed out by having too much fat in the body I think.....

 

[leid]

Kevin--

That's interesting. Especially since most chameleons who have prolapses seem to not be overweight. I guess I'm just comparing it to human anatomy, which evidently isn't the proper method. How much do people feed their chameleons? How much -should- someone feed their chameleons to ensure normal, healthy limits?

 

[NewOwner]

I think one very common cause in the hobby is over feeding.
The majority of owners (new and old) feed their chameleons too much (in my opinion).

-Brad

I dont understand how this works? overfeeding leading to a prolapse?

Very good to know though

 

[summoner12]

if your body is meant to be so big... and you are now larger than your body is meant to be........ it puts pressure on organs.... when it becomes time to lay for a female who is FULL to the brim with eggs... too much fat and is 'forcing' eggs out of her body......

sorta like... when you go to force a fart... and you get a wet one

 

[NewOwner]

if your body is meant to be so big... and you are now larger than your body is meant to be........ it puts pressure on organs.... when it becomes time to lay for a female who is FULL to the brim with eggs... too much fat and is 'forcing' eggs out of her body......

sorta like... when you go to force a fart... and you get a wet one

I have never had that happen, but i look forward to it

Makes some sence now. Wierd way of putting it though L O L

 

[summoner12]

Kevin--

That's interesting. Especially since most chameleons who have prolapses seem to not be overweight. I guess I'm just comparing it to human anatomy, which evidently isn't the proper method. How much do people feed their chameleons? How much -should- someone feed their chameleons to ensure normal, healthy limits?

I don't have it tuned just right with my female... but I only offer her maybe two or three silks worms or horn worms or two super worms or a few crickets or two or three Dubia every other day. These are all food that is appropriate for her sized mouth... so the crickets would be four weeks old, the silk/horn worms are med and the roaches are smaller and the Supers are.. well she can handle large.... just just chomps them up. She is STILL on the 'fatter side' when looking at her body, but I watch her casque to determine her fat storage.... Right now she is VERY gravid... even grabbing for my males when I show her off to them.

Keeping an eye on the weight, intake and fat pads is the way I keep track of her. my female is pretty small... and she is around 90g she shot up just over 100g when she was ready to lay.

supplementing is also critical to make sure she is getting the calcium females need when producing eggs.

 

[leid]

Yeah. I guess.

Is it more common with females? I've read more prolapse issues with females than males.

 

[GooglezNvincent]

if your body is meant to be so big... and you are now larger than your body is meant to be........ it puts pressure on organs.... when it becomes time to lay for a female who is FULL to the brim with eggs... too much fat and is 'forcing' eggs out of her body......

sorta like... when you go to force a fart... and you get a wet one

Lmao! thats great! or like pushing too hard when you poop and it leads to hemroids!

 

[summoner12]

Yeah. I guess.

Is it more common with females? I've read more prolapse issues with females than males.

Um... I think it can happen with males as well...... but I am going to guess it is more likely with a female.

Males can have issues with mating....

 

[kinyonga]

There are intestinal prolapses in males and females.

In females, overfeeding can play a part in it.

http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/lizard-health/lizard-prolapse.aspx
"Other causes for an intestinal prolapse would be diarrhea, parasitic infestation (Giardia, Entamoeba, Microsporidium, Cryptosporidium, ascarids or other types of worms), intestinal infection with the Salmonella bacterium or other organisms, inappropriate husbandry, nerve damage, spinal damage affecting the cloacal nerves or perhaps a congenital abnormality (although this would be quite rare)."

 

[leid]

This is interesting.

What is it that causes chameleons to prolapse due to overeating, that separates mammalian species such as humans from just getting obese and not prolapsing?

Good discussion so far!!

 

[Julirs]

This is interesting.

What is it that causes chameleons to prolapse due to overeating, that separates mammalian species such as humans from just getting obese and not prolapsing?

Good discussion so far!!

I wonder if all of the people that have had prolapses are sitting around on an internet forum talking about it?

 

[martyllian]

So, how does one determine how much is too much?

I'd hate to think I have been overfeeding my growing Chameleon. I thought He was eating like a pig because he was growing and needed it. He gets tons of crickets in the morning,(about 30 between 1/4 and 1/2 inch crickets. mixed sizes) about 4 phoenix worms at suppertime, and he eats Kale througout the day.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I think one very common cause in the hobby is over feeding.

-Brad

This is was my vet has said about prolapses as well. It's not the only cause but the one he sees most often.

As for how much to feed them. I don't have any exact numbers, but unless they are babies, feeding them as much as they want is too much.
They are very opportunistic feeders and so they are wired to eat whenever food is available just in case there won't be any food for several days after that. In captivity there are no times of famine, but the chams don't know that.

I've also noticed and heard from others that they will eat more when they don't have to hunt for their food. If you give them 10 crickets in a bowl they are for more likely to eat them all then when you let those crickets run free in the cage.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

I have seen very small chameleons get prolapses when fed primarily silkworms, and a lot at that. The combination of sheer bulk of the fecal bolus in the intestine and lack of roughage may be the problem - or just the sheer bulk.

Calcium problems may result in weakened muscles. Weak smooth muscle tissue may make the intestines more likely to be "squozen" out with the feces.

 

[Chameleon Company]

They are very opportunistic feeders and so they are wired to eat whenever food is available just in case there won't be any food for several days after that

All my years of raising thousands of chameleons do not support this conclusion, that being that they do not practice adequate self-restraint. They do not eat whenever food is available. While chameleons in captivity will not likely experience a lack of food, the overwhelming majority of captive chameleons (just leaf through the photo pages here) are not obese, do not give an appearance of being overfed, etc. They just look healthy. One reason for WC chameleons being thinner on average would lie at least in part with parasite loads, especially in stressed animals, which bring a host of additional problems to the table. Where most problems arise in captivity, IMMHO I do not think that the hobby's problem with food is quantity, but rather quality, as in nutritional imbalance, vitamin deficiencies or imbalance, etc.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

All my years of raising thousands of chameleons do not support this conclusion, that being that they do not practice adequate self-restraint. They do not eat whenever food is available. While chameleons in captivity will not likely experience a lack of food, the overwhelming majority of captive chameleons (just leaf through the photo pages here) are not obese, do not give an appearance of being overfed, etc. They just look healthy. One reason for WC chameleons being thinner on average would lie at least in part with parasite loads, especially in stressed animals, which bring a host of additional problems to the table. Where most problems arise in captivity, IMMHO I do not think that the hobby's problem with food is quantity, but rather quality, as in nutritional imbalance, vitamin deficiencies or imbalance, etc.

Well, your experience definitely outweighs mine, so thanks for your input, Jim!

I have seen very small chameleons get prolapses when fed primarily silkworms, and a lot at that. The combination of sheer bulk of the fecal bolus in the intestine and lack of roughage may be the problem - or just the sheer bulk.

This reminded me that the keepers that I talked that had a chameleon with a prolapse all fed a lot of soft bodied insects.