Possible New Chameleon keeper?? :D Few Questions

[andy d]

Hello all,

I suppose I should introduce my self . I'm Andy D. and I'm from Port Angeles, Washington. I'm relatively new to the site. I've always known about chameleons, but never actually took an interest in them until a few months ago. Normally I'm a frog guy, have kept tree frogs in the past. But I'm one to appreciate the uniqueness of any reptile/amphibian.

What got me interested in chams was actually a kid’s show. During a commercial break for Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmerman I started flipping through channels. I came across that spin-off show from the animated movie Madagascar. They had these neat little green lizards with that amazing long tongue. I thought to my self, that’s a chameleon huh?? Curious, I got on to youtube and started looking up videos on them. After seen about a dozen or so, I was hooked!!! They are some of the coolest and most unique animals I have seen!

What really intrigued me was their unique patterns and coloration (especially the panthers). I’ve since toyed with the idea of getting one and have just been doing all my research first. I just recently got a book too that has info on history, keeping and care, breeding etc. on jacksons, panther, veiled, and parsons. It’s extremely interesting.

I suppose now that I have given an intro I should start asking questions. I know that for a beginner cham keeper, the species best suited to start with are veiled, panther and Jackson primarily in that order. The coloration of the panthers are just simply amazing! I would love to get one, but seems like that may not be ideal correct? And the veiled would be better? Are there any other species of chameleon that are good for beginner cham keeper?

Second question- where I live tends to be pretty cold for most of the year with June-September being the warmest months. I will probably build my own indoor-screened enclosure tailored to whichever species I choose, but during the summer when the weather actually is warm will it be okay to take the cham outside for a while? I’ve read that its recommended to take them out for a while so they can soak up natural sun and get max airflow, but the example was in southern California. It definitely doesn’t get that hot here, but summer can have days well into the mid 80’s. Would this be okay?

Next question. Once I have the cham species in mind and the enclosure ready to house one, where might be a good place to buy from in Washington? Preferably the Seattle-area or closer... I know our local pet shops can order them, but sure costs a pretty penny or two. I’d love to stick local, but seems like they have just basic knowledge. I really would prefer going with a breeder or at least a shop that has extensive knowledge on them. Last question (for now at least lol), do any of you know of vets in my area that are trained to work with chams? Or at least reptiles with knowledge on chams?? WOW… I’m either really bored or VERY excited about chameleons, so I’m going to stop typing. For those who can survive reading all this and can help me out, thank you very much!

-Andy

 

[andy d]

Oo yea forgot to mention this. So I was out of town yesterday and decided to stop by a Petsmart. The last time I saw a chameleon in person was probably about 5 yrs ago at a local pet shop. With the last few weeks doing reserch on chams I was excited to see a veiled there!! What I wasnt too happy about was the conditions he or she was kept in... VERY small GLASS vivarium. The description said he was a juvinile, but it seemed too big for such a tiny enclosure. Its body alone was maybe 4in not including the tail. It had like MAYBE 1ft of verticle space if that? He looked alright health wise, no indented eyes (however you call that), and coloration seemed a healthy green... but I still felt soo bad for the little guy! A clerk said he could help me with some questions, and when I asked where they have enclosures for it, the guy showed me like a 20 gallon horizontal GLASS vivarium. He was all like "Yeah, they just eat crickets and that should be good". This guy obvously didnt know squat about the chameleons... I may be a beginner but I felt like telling the guy hes got it all wrong... Almost wanted to take the lil cham home with me, but I still a ways away from being ready..

 

[Danicuteeyes]

Great to see your interest!! I'm going to get my first chameleon on sunday and i am more than ecstatic!!

For sure, petsmart doesn't know how to care for the chams...i saw the same thing at mines once...they are supposed to be at a ventilated mesh type cage.

In the glass aquariums or w.e. its called...that should only be for babies but they should be kept in a well ventilated cage lol

I'm getting a juvi male veiled from one of the forum members here...best place to look for chams! you might find a deal also

For keeping the chameleon outside, it should only be for awhile, like half in and half out during the day just to be safe.

As for an enclosure, check out LLL Reptile for an aluminum cage...I got my cage for $66 shipped.
I dont know if their code CHAM3 works but it gives 3 bucks off! You can also build one on your own...or check ebay for the Reptarium. Some members custom make their cages...

read up on here for more info on cham care: http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

 

[Danicuteeyes]

also i got my hood here >> Reptisun Hood (hold the bulb) 20"

and my bulb>>Reptisun 5.0 18" bulb

in stores the hood alone is $35-39.99!! and the bulb in stores in $25-27...online its around $20...

in total both items shipped it came out to $46

 

[nick barta]

Andy,

Welcome to the Forum. There are several breeders near you, ParadalisGirl (Catherine) is in Gig Harbor, and Northwest Chameleons (Sandy/Elliot) in Graham Washington. I would suggest you contact them, and purchase from a breeder, rather than a pet store.

Chances are great that pet store chameleons have not gotten sufficient UVB and proper supplimentation, so you start off with a less than healthy animal.
Veilds are a "starter" chameleon, but if you want color, the Panthers at both of these breeders are exceptional, and not payinf for shipping will save you $. Picking one out is WAY more fun anyway!

Another option is to spend the next 4 weeks learning more on the forum about enclosures, feeders, watering, getting your enclosure ready first, and your feeder insects ready. October 17th and 18th at the Puyallup fair grounds, there is a Captive bred reptile show, and you could pick up a chameleon from Catherine (and possibly Sandy/Elliot) at the show.

I live in Puyallup, so if you would like to see some enclosures, i would be glad to have you over for a visit.

Nick

 

[andy d]

Another option is to spend the next 4 weeks learning more on the forum about enclosures, feeders, watering, getting your enclosure ready first, and your feeder insects ready. October 17th and 18th at the Puyallup fair grounds, there is a Captive bred reptile show, and you could pick up a chameleon from Catherine (and possibly Sandy/Elliot) at the show.

I live in Puyallup, so if you would like to see some enclosures, i would be glad to have you over for a visit.

Nick

That is awesome! I actually have a free pass to the fair. I wasnt sure If I was going to make it out that way this year, but shoot knowing that will be there, how can I not?? I will most likely have to work Saturday, but might be able to get it off. If not then for sure that Sunday. Thanks so much for the intel!

Btw, whats the average price you can expect to see for veileds and panthers at a reptile show?

 

[andy d]

Also, I appreciate the invite! But I do work quite a bit and will be starting a class back up at peninsula college so finding time to make trips that way is hard to plan for. However, if I pm you my email, could you maybe send me some pics??

**Edit** Whoops thought it was gong to be an exhibit at the puyallup fair or so lol. Well looks like I might not make it to the fair, but I will definately make it for that show! Does it cost to get in?

 

[Breeze]

Btw, whats the average price you can expect to see for veileds and panthers at a reptile show?

I got my veiled for 40 bucks at 2 months. I think it depends on the seller or the age of the cham... like younger one's I saw for 30 bucks but older ones are 75+. Hope that helped.

P.S. Welcome to the forums... it's the best

 

[jheitz]

Hey Andy, Welcome to the forums. I'am a Washington Navy transplant. I ditto what Nick said. Sandy and Elliot are great folks. I've talked with them on several occasions and they were kind enough to help me through some issues with my little guy. I to recommend a Veiled as a starter chameleon. They are very hardy, colorfull, and robust. I also recommend you get a male. Best of luck to you, and let us know if you need any more advice.

 

[andy d]

So I have another question in reguards to enclosures. I still haven't quite decided if I want to buy one or make one (looks fairly easy to make and might be quite fun ). The question is, is it really necessary to have two different size enclosures in a chameleons lifetime? I've read the "ideal" size is 2ftx2ftx4ft for an adult, but I'm seeing a few places people start off with a smaller one when they have a young/juvinile chameleon? Why is this done? I could see where a large enclosure could proove difficult for the cham finding food if you just throw feeder crickets in the enclosure, but if you hand feed or use a cup, then what could be the purpose of a small enclosure to start with?

 

[Carlton]

Some people prefer a smaller cage for a tiny baby so it can find its food and water more easily. But, that's if you plan to free range your feeders. Personally, I don't like to free range as they hide quickly and lose their gutload, pick up nasty stuff off the bottom of the cage, and when the cham is sleeping at night crix have been known to chew on them. If you want to build one larger cage you can always subdivide it at first then remove the barriers as he grows. A larger cage will make it easier over time to provide a good temp and humidity range and nice large bushy plants.

Also, as this will be your first cham I suggest getting a juvenile several months old rather than a tiny hatchling. Hatchlings are harder to acclimate, harder to feed unless you are used to using fruitflies and pinhead crix. A juvenile will be showing some personality by then also.

 

[SteveKC]

So I have another question in reguards to enclosures. I still haven't quite decided if I want to buy one or make one (looks fairly easy to make and might be quite fun ). The question is, is it really necessary to have two different size enclosures in a chameleons lifetime? I've read the "ideal" size is 2ftx2ftx4ft for an adult, but I'm seeing a few places people start off with a smaller one when they have a young/juvinile chameleon? Why is this done? I could see where a large enclosure could proove difficult for the cham finding food if you just throw feeder crickets in the enclosure, but if you hand feed or use a cup, then what could be the purpose of a small enclosure to start with?

I heard this all the time too. So I asked a reputable breeder this question and he told me it really isn't necessary to start with smaller cages and move up, especially if you're going to cup feed. His reasoning was sound...they (chams) manage somehow in the wild. It's not like the size of their environments grow to accommodate their size, haha.

I say you buy whatever species you really want. If you've taken the time to educate yourself and properly prepare an en-closer (which i would say you have) then I don't see why you couldn't care for any species!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Hello Andy, and Welcome.
I am also a frog person who got later into chameleons. We're not alone here.

That you're starting with reading and asking questions suggest you'll make a good chameleon owner

I started with a panther, and I believe that they make as good of choice as a veiled for a beginner. The primary differences, as I see it, are: cost (a panther will cost more, but if that difference is too much, you're likely not ready for a chameleon anyhow as the animal itself is the least of the expenses); and two temperature. Veiled will tolerate cooler nights, warmer days. But if you keep your house at temperatures good for you, you wont have much trouble keeping the chameleons house good for it.

Veiled or Panther, Get a male about 6 months old. Males are easier for beginners.
And buy from a reputable breeder, not a pet store. You dont yet know what to look for health wise, so best to rely on the reputation of the breeder to get a good animal. Check the classifieds here, or the site sponsors (top right of screen).

Its cool half the year where I live, and not hot the rest of the year. Im in BC, not all that far from Seattle. Just read up on the temp needs of the selected type of chameleon, and ensure you can provide for it with heat during the winter. And yes, okay to move the chameleon outside on warm days, your 75F -80F days are good.

I've moved small young chameleons into large cages quickly, and I've gradually moved them into new bigger cages. I primarily cup feed. Even so, they seem to adjust better if moved in stages. granted, I'm talking about hatchling through to 6 months. At 6 months you can essentially, in my opinion, put them straight into their adult cages 2'h*2'w*4'h

 

[andy d]

Thanks to all who have helped and to those with kind words as well! Its good to hear I'm on the right track. I guess you can say over time I've learned never to jump into anything with out knowing all there is to know about it first, especially when it comes to keeping animals.

Right now I'm browsing the site, getting ideas on enclosure setups and what they consist of. So for uv lighting and basking I'm looking at reptisun 5.0 uvb and a zoo med 60 watt day bulb. Are these okay choices? Whats the procedure for when night time comes around? Do you just turn off both sources of light for that natrual drop in temp?? How do you regulate that? If there is some sort of dusk to dawn kinda system I can look into, that would be awesome!

For misting, I've seen a few posts talking about the mister moister setup. That seems like a great system, but is it kind of overkill for one chameleon?? What are some other options other than the classic mister bottle? (I'm probably going to just get one of those, but If I'm going to do it, might as well go big or go home eh? lol). How about the zoomed habba mist system?

Sorry for all the questions, but I do want to do this right. I'm thinking if I do build my own enclosure, it'd be nice to incorporate some of these into the design. I probably could have started another thread in the enclosure, but I figured why start a new one when I have a good one with some very friendly/knowledgeable people helping me out!

 

[Chameleonboy]

The best information I can give you would be to" Read through the whole entire forum as much as possible lol" im serous read as much as you can and you will still need to read much more.

-Clemonde

 

[xanthoman]

The best information I can give you would be to" Read through the whole entire forum as much as possible lol" im serous read as much as you can and you will still need to read much more.

-Clemonde

probably the best advice i have heared on the forum since ive been here

 

[Danicuteeyes]

The best information I can give you would be to" Read through the whole entire forum as much as possible lol" im serous read as much as you can and you will still need to read much more.

-Clemonde

Your advice was to read the other advices!!

 

[Danicuteeyes]

Thanks to all who have helped and to those with kind words as well! Its good to hear I'm on the right track. I guess you can say over time I've learned never to jump into anything with out knowing all there is to know about it first, especially when it comes to keeping animals.

Right now I'm browsing the site, getting ideas on enclosure setups and what they consist of. So for uv lighting and basking I'm looking at reptisun 5.0 uvb and a zoo med 60 watt day bulb. Are these okay choices? Whats the procedure for when night time comes around? Do you just turn off both sources of light for that natrual drop in temp?? How do you regulate that? If there is some sort of dusk to dawn kinda system I can look into, that would be awesome!

For misting, I've seen a few posts talking about the mister moister setup. That seems like a great system, but is it kind of overkill for one chameleon?? What are some other options other than the classic mister bottle? (I'm probably going to just get one of those, but If I'm going to do it, might as well go big or go home eh? lol). How about the zoomed habba mist system?

Sorry for all the questions, but I do want to do this right. I'm thinking if I do build my own enclosure, it'd be nice to incorporate some of these into the design. I probably could have started another thread in the enclosure, but I figured why start a new one when I have a good one with some very friendly/knowledgeable people helping me out!

12-14 hours should do it for them...if they are inside...

I usually take my cham out in the morning, afternoon to get some fresh air and bring him back in around 6pm-7pm and turn it off around 8...(first the reptisun then the 60 watt bulb)

For the lighting, the reptisun 5.0 18" Uvb bulb and the 60 watt bulb is the best.

People make their own misting systems...search the forums for the "Under $100 misting system" or something like that. Or people buy mistkings. I haven't gotten close to a misting system so im sticking with the spray bottle xD 3-4 times a day 10-15 mins

 

[Rubiks]

enclosure

I am also new to the forum and have been reading up on chams and ended up building my own enclosure very easy to do, but made mine 24"Lx24"Wx30"H, But this is going to be for a juvy, What i decided to do is when it gets bigger i will add onto the bottom, take out the floor which i made simple to do and just add height, When all said and done it will have a bottom and top door, not very .hard to do at all just added alot more detail to mine. Had a great time building it. Has alot more character than a metal one.

 

[nick barta]

Also, I appreciate the invite! But I do work quite a bit and will be starting a class back up at peninsula college so finding time to make trips that way is hard to plan for. However, if I pm you my email, could you maybe send me some pics??

**Edit** Whoops thought it was gong to be an exhibit at the puyallup fair or so lol. Well looks like I might not make it to the fair, but I will definately make it for that show! Does it cost to get in?

Yes it does, under $10.00 I think. I am always a vendor!

Nick