Possible cricket bite/impaction/broken limb

[Sarah B]

Hi all. Two days ago I found my pygmy, perching unusually not using one of her limbs. The side of the leg she's not using is darkened in color from her tail down to her leg. I dont think this is an impaction because it would be on both sides right?? So I am thinking she may have hurt her leg, or has an infection. Does anyone know what it might be? Ive seen it before in this thread:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pygmy-cham-unknown-injury-52060/

but all the info I gathered was that it could be a cricket bite (causing infection), or a bruise. I hope whatever it is, is treatable. I found a local vet but I havent called because I had work today. If they are open tomorrow I am making a phone call and an appointment for as soon as possible. But I'd like to get any ideas from you guys of what it could be. If it's a broken bone, it *may* heal (good...maybe) If its an infection it can be treated (better). I'm trying to get my own pic up here and having issues with that. Will repost and see if I can get it to work.

Thanks to anyone who may have any ideas and decides to chime in...I really don't want to lose this girl

 

[Sarah B]

here she is

I hope this works, tried to include pic

 

[camimom]

Hi all. Two days ago I found my pygmy, perching unusually not using one of her limbs. The side of the leg she's not using is darkened in color from her tail down to her leg. I dont think this is an impaction because it would be on both sides right?? So I am thinking she may have hurt her leg, or has an infection. Does anyone know what it might be? Ive seen it before in this thread:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pygmy-cham-unknown-injury-52060/

but all the info I gathered was that it could be a cricket bite (causing infection), or a bruise. I hope whatever it is, is treatable. I found a local vet but I havent called because I had work today. If they are open tomorrow I am making a phone call and an appointment for as soon as possible. But I'd like to get any ideas from you guys of what it could be. If it's a broken bone, it *may* heal (good...maybe) If its an infection it can be treated (better). I'm trying to get my own pic up here and having issues with that. Will repost and see if I can get it to work.

Thanks to anyone who may have any ideas and decides to chime in...I really don't want to lose this girl

If your cham looks like the pic in the thread, I think it might be a bruise. Try giving it a warm shower, When my veiled bruised his tail, i gave him a shower, and it helped in my opinion.
But you should post a pic of your cham so we can all see. BTw, if it is a broken leg, it can heal on its own, Im 75% sure my guy broke his back leg cuz of how its shaped now, but he seems to be using it just fine.

 

[Sarah B]

thank you!!!!

your message was filled with hope for my pygmy and I thank you. I will get the mister filled with warm water immediately!

 

[Sarah B]

i filled the mister with warm de-chlorinated water and misted her down about three times, then misted the enclosure to raise the humidity. She seemed to be moving the hurt leg a little better and enjoyed it, I think. We shall see...


Thanks Camimom!

 

[camimom]

i filled the mister with warm de-chlorinated water and misted her down about three times, then misted the enclosure to raise the humidity. She seemed to be moving the hurt leg a little better and enjoyed it, I think. We shall see...


Thanks Camimom!

NP! I know it can be scary! FYI, if it is a bruise, it can take weeks even a month or two to fully heal. But it will. Try a warm shower everyday until it recedes. After a 15 minute shower, you will see the bruise start to go away, but it will come back, but each shower seemed to help. For awhile he wouldnt curl his tail tip all the way in, but after about 2 weeks he went back to normal with it.

As for the broken leg on my guy, it is fully healed, albeit not totally straight, but he has a strong grip and uses it just fine, as if nothing happened. I cant say for sure it was broken, but its not straight like the other one. but hes all good now, so no worries.

 

[Sarah B]

Turns out, she was egg bound. I gave her her warm shower this morning and within 2 hours problem was solved!

 

[camimom]

Turns out, she was egg bound. I gave her her warm shower this morning and within 2 hours problem was solved!

Then you got very very lucky. Many chams who are egg bound require a vet visit and injections of i think oxytocin to get them to contract and release the eggs.
You may want to schedule a vet visit anyway and have xrays taken to see if there are any more eggs, JIC.

 

[Sarah B]

Up to how many can they lay? There were atleast 3. Maybe one more. I still want to be sure though so I will asap. The closest herp vet I've found is about 30 miles away.

omgosh I did get lucky then didn't I? Im so grateful I didn't lose her and so grateful for your help.

 

[camimom]

Up to how many can they lay? There were atleast 3. Maybe one more. I still want to be sure though so I will asap. The closest herp vet I've found is about 30 miles away.

omgosh I did get lucky then didn't I? Im so grateful I didn't lose her and so grateful for your help.

I don't know much about pygmies, but from everything ive seen on this site, the largest number i saw was 6.
Do you know how to deal with pygmy eggs? if not, start a new thread and get some help on them. ( if they are fertile of course, if not, then you can throw them away)
Until you can get her to a vet, palpitate her tummy and see if you feel any eggs in there. If not, then she probably laid them all. But it would still be smart to get to a vet and have them double check.
You ddi get very lucky, there are several stories on here of girls dying bc of egg binding. And pygmies are a delicate little cham.

 

[Sarah B]

From what I could see there were 3 atleast. I called the vet and got the prices which were pretty high, but I got another number of a different vet so I will check with them too. Both are about the same distance.

I'll wait til later to palpitate her tummy. I don't want to disturb her too much. The eggs were nice and white, but Im thinking I should leave them in the tank for a day or so, bc if they aren't fertile I should be able to see signs of discoloration. Other than that it's just being patient. I keep the eggs in moistened vermiculite. I've heard eco earth is bad for eggs. Not sure why. Maybe I should take them out right away. I have 3 right now that have been incubating for four weeks atleast (can't find my calender right now) but they start as tic tacs and turn out the size of a peanut m&m, which is about what those 3 look like now.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

The eggs may have been impinging on a nerve, which is why she didn't want to use her leg. The reason is say that is chameleon coloration is neurohormonally controlled - so hormonal (mood changes) and by nerves themselves. So when a nerve or the spine is damaged the coloration behind that nerve will be different, usually darker.

My Pygmy girl usually lays eggs 3 at a time, but it can be up to 6. If those already look that big I'd be worried about why she didn't lay them sooner. What substrate do you use, how deep is it, do you mist often enough that some parts stay somewhat moist and is there enough cover that she feels safe going to the ground to lay?

Infertile eggs can take weeks or months to appear infertile, and being exposed to air and light may cause them to discolor just because of that, or dehydrate enough that even fertile eggs will be affected. I say stick em in the incubator, and if they're no good you can pull them out later. I incubate in moistened vermiculite, but have had them hatch in the viv where they were buried in Eco earth soil also.

Fwiw, the vet is going to laugh when you say you want to xray your Pygmy when they see it! Something that small is almost impossible to image unless you have really, really good equipment! You will pay lots of money for a barely readable image so you may not even see the egg because shes too tiny. And they can't really do anything if there is another egg (which I doubt if they were that big - there is only so much room in that tiny body!) the dose of oxytocin would be too small to even give successfully. Unfortunately with these little guys nature has to take its course and all we can do is give them the best conditions to try to facilitate that. Sounds like you did her a great service and I bet she's WAY more comfortable now! Make sure she gets lots of calcium supplementation for the next few weeks to make up for what she lost in those big eggs.

 

[Sarah B]

The eggs may have been impinging on a nerve, which is why she didn't want to use her leg. The reason is say that is chameleon coloration is neurohormonally controlled - so hormonal (mood changes) and by nerves themselves. So when a nerve or the spine is damaged the coloration behind that nerve will be different, usually darker.

My Pygmy girl usually lays eggs 3 at a time, but it can be up to 6. If those already look that big I'd be worried about why she didn't lay them sooner. What substrate do you use, how deep is it, do you mist often enough that some parts stay somewhat moist and is there enough cover that she feels safe going to the ground to lay?

Infertile eggs can take weeks or months to appear infertile, and being exposed to air and light may cause them to discolor just because of that, or dehydrate enough that even fertile eggs will be affected. I say stick em in the incubator, and if they're no good you can pull them out later. I incubate in moistened vermiculite, but have had them hatch in the viv where they were buried in Eco earth soil also.

Fwiw, the vet is going to laugh when you say you want to xray your Pygmy when they see it! Something that small is almost impossible to image unless you have really, really good equipment! You will pay lots of money for a barely readable image so you may not even see the egg because shes too tiny. And they can't really do anything if there is another egg (which I doubt if they were that big - there is only so much room in that tiny body!) the dose of oxytocin would be too small to even give successfully. Unfortunately with these little guys nature has to take its course and all we can do is give them the best conditions to try to facilitate that. Sounds like you did her a great service and I bet she's WAY more comfortable now! Make sure she gets lots of calcium supplementation for the next few weeks to make up for what she lost in those big eggs.

Thank you for that explanation!! And yes, she looks better already. Her color is back to normal and she's using her leg again to perch and move around. I took pics of the tic tacs, lol the lighting is bad but they're white.....so we'll see.

The soil (eco earth) is 3 inches deep and they are kept at 70% humidity. Once in awhile I'll let it go down to prevent respiratory infections. Like once a week. Temps stay around 73-75...

 

[Sarah B]

Her leg still isn't the same but she's using it better.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Sounds like physical conditions are right so maybe she felt to exposed to go down to the substrate to lay? Maybe adding some more plant cover or barriers around the sides near the bottom of the viv will make her feel safer next time so she doesn't have this problem again.

 

[Sarah B]

Not quite yet. She's still not using that hind leg easily.