Bump in the Corner of Young Chameleon's Eye

[LizardLurkin]

A little before and after

The day before:

And this one, I think it kind of illustrates a point of how big the blockage gets. It almost looks like the start of his turret here (the bulge on the left side of his face.)

Today:

It's totally emptied out, but you can see that there's slack in the corner of the eye. It seems he is susceptible to blockage due to this slack. That's the theory, anyhow. They should invent Chameleon facelifts.

 

[MissSkittles]

He’s got to feel so much better.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Gosh, I hope so!
Oh, the last two times I applied ointment to that eye, I've caught him rubbing it afterwards. The turret sort of balloons up during the whole fiasco. The branches are soft and sanded down, but I'm still like "oh no i hope he won't make it worse!"
Any idea if that's a normal reaction? Like a childish "ew this feels bad in my eye!" kind of thing?

 

[LizardLurkin]

I have just realized I erroneously thought Dr Dayna was in Alaska because there is a clinic with the exact same name here orz Oh no, I feel foolish bringing her up and saying she was located here!

 

[LizardLurkin]

I just want to give an update. Spooble's eye is as saggy as ever, but I do notice an odd composition about it since yesterday. I know there's nothing normal about this eye, but I suppose I'm here wondering if this may be a result of the many eye cleanings + poking around in his eye. It seems inflamed.
Pictured here is the day before they used the needle to dig out the debris:

This is the day of the debris removal.

This is maybe a week later:

^ I notice here, that there is this lighter coloration around the eye ball itself. I see it shows up on the "day of" pic too, so I wondered if it is some sort of damage? There's a little bit of empty space you can see between the eye and the lid.
Here is a couple from the day before:

And this is today:

(It might be sunken because I was very up close with the phone for documentation purposes)

I feel so sad for him, even though he acts as chameleonly as he should. I worry that, while I believe I'm doing most things correctly, that I'm failing him in some small way that I'm not aware of.
I'll continue monitoring his sad eye with care. I'm always open to suggestions and critique as I try to figure this out.
Is there anyone I could reach out to by email, personally, to pick their brains about this? I've gotten him to the vet 5 times since I first picked him in March, and I'm fine to take him again, but I'd like to go with more ideas and hypotheses...
I also worry that so many trips up could be stressing him out, too
I'm rambling now, but thanks for taking the time to read.

 

[ehdee6]

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing the best you can. I think, at this point, the best thing might be to leave it be for a while to see if it heals any more. It looks less puffy, and it's only been 3 weeks since the operation, he's probably still healing from it.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Thank you for your response
His eye is actually looking okay, as far as that wrinkly thing of his goes.

I just saw that pic from a couple days ago and freaked out, where you can see both of his eyes in the same pic.
I think, even if he does have this struggle, that at least he's living a rather nice life with no expenses spared for his well being ;_;
I know some people here say the first chameleon is the hardest, and I did willingly pick him, funny eye and all.

 

[kinyonga]

You said...”the last two times I applied ointment to that eye, I've caught him rubbing it afterwards. The turret sort of balloons up during the whole fiasco. The branches are soft and sanded down, but I'm still like "oh no i hope he won't make it worse!"
Any idea if that's a normal reaction? Like a childish "ew this feels bad in my eye!" kind of thing?”… I would wonder if the cream was annoying him. Have you thought about asking the vet if you could get a liquid medication to use instead.

Now, using a liquid medication will bring issues of its own when trying to get the drops into the eye since the turret will move a lot while you’re holding the chameleon to drop the drop in…and you don’t want to get the meds into its mouth.

chameleonputting eye droos in the eye youtube

 

[LizardLurkin]

You said...”the last two times I applied ointment to that eye, I've caught him rubbing it afterwards. The turret sort of balloons up during the whole fiasco. The branches are soft and sanded down, but I'm still like "oh no i hope he won't make it worse!"
Any idea if that's a normal reaction? Like a childish "ew this feels bad in my eye!" kind of thing?”… I would wonder if the cream was annoying him. Have you thought about asking the vet if you could get a liquid medication to use instead.

Now, using a liquid medication will bring issues of its own when trying to get the drops into the eye since the turret will move a lot while you’re holding the chameleon to drop the drop in…and you don’t want to get the meds into its mouth.

chameleonputting eye droos in the eye youtube

Thank you for the suggestion. Its been a while since I've used the ointment, but I have been putting saline drops in his eyes a couple times a week just in the hopes that it encourages more cleaning behaviors from him. I will bring that possibility of medicated eye drops up when next I visit. It is tricky to get the saline drops in, but I think I'm beginning to get the hang of it.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry for the broken link in my last post..it was meant to show how to get the drops in the eye without getting them in the mouth.

 

[ehdee6]

Looking at past posts with similar pictures...

I was just reading #4 in this post: It's a bit out of date (2012), but the Cham had a build up of eye shed.

Https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/eye-problems.76636/post-720739

Could it be a build up of shed skin? There did look like some fleshy matter was flushed out.

I then noticed this post (2017) also looks like the same, and notice it's shedding!

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/possible-eye-infection.161544/

This little one (2022) also looks like it has the same bulge.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/eyelid-bubble-swollen-eye.186281/

... just brainstorming. Not many people provide updates, or definitive answers. I hope you find a resolution to keep others informed. Spooble's a lucky man to have such a caring owner!

 

[LizardLurkin]

I've noticed in my short time of having him so far, that the buildup kind of kicks up again when he's nearing a shed. The debris that has come out have been described as non infectious materials, and thought to be shed material. I'm kind of hoping that, as he gets older and has to shed less often, the problem resolves itself. And that it never turns into anything bad!

I did notice that often, threads of a similar issue, the OP kind of vanished without much information or resolution xD...That's why I want to proactive and share progress.
I've learned of all sorts of things: keratin plugs, stuck shed, vitamin deficiencies, abscesses, to more extreme things as tumors.
Definitely I will get my next cham (much later from now) from a more reputable source, because it's also not out of the question that he just has a deformity from the harsh breeding conditions of the reptile pet trade. That said, I do very much enjoy my time with Spooble, and I'll do everything I can for him.

Unrelated;
Just yesterday I was trying to feed him, and he kept licking my fingers cause I painted them a couple days ago. I guess they looked like some yummy worms. It was so cute (but I'll hide my fingers from now on to reduce the risk of hurting him.)

 

[MissSkittles]

I have to wonder if Spooble has been born with the tendency to accumulate or form the plugs. It’s not really anything that can be proven/disproven other than if they continue to recur in spite of your best efforts to prevent them. I do hope that this is not the case and that your handsome fella doesn’t get any more.

 

[LizardLurkin]

This seems to be the theory the vet is also leaning towards as well. She says the eyelid appears to have some slack, and his little eyehole is also a tad smaller on that eye as well. We'll see what age does about it.
It would be nice, for his sake, to not have to visit anymore for flushes, though.

 

[LizardLurkin]

There's nothing really new to add here but new photos of Spooble's eyes.
Right Eye:

Left eye:

Saggy as ever. Also noticeably darker and less colorful than his right eye.

Another photo because I'm unsure if his left eye generally has a more sunken-in appearance as well (I wondered that with past photos as well.)
On the bright side, it looks less swollen. Not sure if he's getting more build-up again, but ain't that just the Spooble way?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

You may want to talk to a vet to check if there is any way to cure the eye. If not you may have to live with your male Chamaeleo calypatratus's eye that way. Wish there was more ways to cure that condition.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[LizardLurkin]

You may want to talk to a vet to check if there is any way to cure the eye. If not you may have to live with your male Chamaeleo calypatratus's eye that way. Wish there was more ways to cure that condition.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

If it truly is a cosmetic issue, I am unsure if there's procedures for that. I can only imagine some sort of...Chameleon eye-lift surgery to get rid of the slack, but surgery feels very worrying when it comes reptiles. It's difficult to gauge if it's necessary, though the left eye is certainly problematic with its disposition for blockages.

Is chameleon plastic surgery a thing?
I wonder if he was like that as a little baby though. This is how he appeared before I got him:

I looked online for similar conditions, and thought it might've been something that would just need to be flushed or poked out and that'd be the end of it. Oh, how wrong I was.
The thing I ponder is if the saggy skin came first, and the blockage he had in the pet store was already indicative of his cosmetic issue, or if the saggy skin was a result of flushing that blockage out. Like. Did his once normal eye grow in such a way to accommodate the blockage? I have so many thoughts!
It was huge though.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Several months later, and I've finally got a second opinion from a different vet.

This is a photo of his left eye as of October 31 for reference:

To summarize his thoughts; he believes this to be a congenital, cosmetic issue, or a benign cyst of sorts (paraphrasing.) There are no outward signs that point to infection and, with past flushings, no infectious materials came out. His heart sounds healthy, his bone density is good, no concerning curvature or kinks, and a strong grip. He said Spooble seems like a happy, healthy chameleon.
He said that, yeah, surgical intervention may fix this, but he, at this point, doesn't think the risk seems, as it's not interfering with his life in any way. If the bump stays around this size, constant flushings don't seem necessary either, as it's not obstructing his vision to the point of inhibiting function. I also shared a photo of that swelling from the last flushing, that took over a month to go away. The vet finds it best to leave it alone and not cause unnecessary discomfort.

He also noted that, if it was deficiencies in a vitamin, he expects to see both sides affected. Same with sinus infections.
Because it's only one eye that is affected, he really leans toward the cosmetic issue stance, especially since it's been like this since Spooble was a baby.

All in all, he seemed very honest and had even seen this sort of thing with chameleons prior. I sought out an appointment with him in particular because all the AK reptile groups always name him. I don't feel disappointed in the visit at all, even if I wasn't sent home with a treatment plan/medication of sorts that would "fix" this.

I will, of course, be diligent in observing Spooble's eye, as I have always been for the past 7, going on 8 months coming next week. I just thought, maybe, it'd be good information for the forum that perhaps sometimes there are birth defects that appear problematic, but are not due to an underlying health problem or infection.
Of course, I've gone to the vets like 6(?) times to reach this sort of conclusion, so it's best to get oddities like this checked out to rule out anything harmful.
Never assume something isn't an issue until it's been thoroughly checked, and even if this conclusion is reached, never become indifferent and continue to monitor for any major changes!

BONUS:

Spooble getting his heart listened to. He was so funny and squirmy.