Please Help - Chameleon doesn't seem healthy

[Brodybreaux25]

because I had the same experience with this bulb, same shape same problem.. it also melt my plastic cup under my hornworm.. theses bulb are dangerous plus the shape of the burn got the exact shape of the light focal flow

How did that burn present? Typical grey coloration with clear discharge?

 

[Mawtyplant]

my burn was bit milder, so discolouration and was with a melleri I then tester this bulb with my hand and wait 10 minutes under.. it turn out to be really really inconfortable theses bulb really penatred the skin deeply. so due to the basking position of his chameleon I assume its that im not really buying the uvb burn theory mostly because of the shape of the burn, location and the absence of any eyes discomfort.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

my burn was bit milder, so discolouration and was with a melleri I then tester this bulb with my hand and wait 10 minutes under.. it turn out to be really really inconfortable theses bulb really penatred the skin deeply. so due to the basking position of his chameleon I assume its that im not really buying the uvb burn theory mostly because of the shape of the burn, location and the absence of any eyes discomfort.

I did not say UVB burn, I was talking about the concentrated UVA/C from the halogen. UVB would be widespread with eye irritation as you mentioned.

If you say you’ve had this exact experience then I believe you.

 

[nightanole]

my burn was bit milder, so discolouration and was with a melleri I then tester this bulb with my hand and wait 10 minutes under.. it turn out to be really really inconfortable theses bulb really penatred the skin deeply. so due to the basking position of his chameleon I assume its that im not really buying the uvb burn theory mostly because of the shape of the burn, location and the absence of any eyes discomfort.

Yea depending on the model, the Sylvania halogen 60W spotlight can be as narrow as 25 degrees. So if Op had a 45+ degree and then replaced it with a 25 degree and didnt retune the branch distance, i could see a burn.

 

[nightanole]

I did not say UVB burn, I was talking about the concentrated UVA/C from the halogen. UVB would be widespread with eye irritation as you mentioned.

If you say you’ve had this exact experience then I believe you.

"ALL" halogens for consumers have to have a UV filter cap on them in order to be sold. The only ones that dont have the cap are the ones where you can physically touch the halogen bulb (the tiny sucker) and those are installed into "things" that should have the filter, or not for consumer use.

 

[Mawtyplant]

I did not say UVB burn, I was talking about the concentrated UVA/C from the halogen. UVB would be widespread with eye irritation as you mentioned.

If you say you’ve had this exact experience then I believe you.

ahh sorry misread (insert more coffee here)

 

[JoXie411]

Lol, where did you learn math?

I used my toes? Isn’t that how you count?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

"ALL" halogens for consumers have to have a UV filter cap on them in order to be sold. The only ones that dont have the cap are the ones where you can physically touch the halogen bulb (the tiny sucker) and those are installed into "things" that should have the filter, or not for consumer use.

Didn't know that, thanks. So could the filter be as simple as a plate of glass or would it be identifiable as something else like the diamond pattern on the lens of the bulb?

 

[nightanole]

Didn't know that, thanks. So could the filter be as simple as a plate of glass or would it be identifiable as something else like the diamond pattern on the lens of the bulb?

If you can physically touch this part, it "may" have no filter.

But most are "bulb in bulb" and have a cap, its assumed to be uv filtered, but some are labeled "uv filter" and some go as far as put "uv filter" etched into the cap. Ill take a pic of mine at home with the cap labeled.

https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-GIDDS-681432-Tru-Aim-Halogen-Dichroic/dp/B003QSYRT8

 

[Brodybreaux25]

That's the kind I was thinking of, there is that with a clear glass lens over it and that's it.

 

[Guest 55448]

Well im not sure how long a 18" cham is going to like being in a 18" cage...

But yes they make both a 14" and a 22" hood. You will not be able to buy a T5HO bulb for your hood, you have to buy the whole hood that comes with a light. But the lights need changed half as much, so you get double the life from each bulb.

https://zoomed.com/reptisun-t5-ho-terrarium-hood/

If you are stuck with that hood, then get a 18" zoomed T8 10.0.

Yes, I know his cage size isn't the best right now and I have a plan to upgrade it soon, I just need to move out some furniture first and figure out how I am going to alter the entire rack he is on to fit a larger cage. This is why I let him free-range. I just found it strange when he decided NOT to leave the cage in addition to the strange behavior. After a month of not wanting out and those spots looking nasty, I closed up the door to give him a sense of security and to monitor him. I will have to look into this hood as well when I upgrade. Does anyone on here know of people or a place where used stuff could be purchased at a discount? I'd had to trash all this stuff when I upgrade- plus Ill need the money to supplement the changes

 

[Guest 55448]

Id put your UVB fixture right on top of the screen cage top. UVB loses strength with distance and the screen will be blocking a good amount as is. With the screen, the UVB will only be beneficial down about 6-8 inches depending on what strength bulb you are using so every inch counts. The UVB won't be hot enough to burn your cham while resting on the screen so no worries there.

Ok, that is an easy fix and I can move it to the top of his screen for sure. Thank you!

 

[Guest 55448]

I got the RO water filter from Chewy and it has been a God sent, and I live in an apartment. Just make sure you have a faucet that you can take the spout off to reveal the threads that you'll connect it to. It's very easy to use.

That's the problem, I don't have a spout I can feed off of. His cage is in the far end of the living room and far away from any plumbing fixtures. I was trying to get back into a full house I used to rent on the cheap from a friend because there was a finished heated basement with an entire tiled room. It had plumbing and everything. I was going to convert into a reptile haven- but my friend decided to sell the house so that plan blew up in flames and I got stuck in another year lease at this place. It's a beautiful apartment, but not as spacious as I'd like for what I have planned for my critters. I need an extra bedroom and right now I don't have it. :/

 

[Daesie11]

That's the problem, I don't have a spout I can feed off of. His cage is in the far end of the living room and far away from any plumbing fixtures. I was trying to get back into a full house I used to rent on the cheap from a friend because there was a finished heated basement with an entire tiled room. It had plumbing and everything. I was going to convert into a reptile haven- but my friend decided to sell the house so that plan blew up in flames and I got stuck in another year lease at this place. It's a beautiful apartment, but not as spacious as I'd like for what I have planned for my critters. I need an extra bedroom and right now I don't have it. :/

So I just fill up old gallon jugs with my filter, and then put the water in whatever reservoir needs filled. It's notthe most efficient way to do it but its the best way in an apartment. My enclosure is no where near any plumbing as well.

 

[nightanole]

Yes, I know his cage size isn't the best right now and I have a plan to upgrade it soon, I just need to move out some furniture first and figure out how I am going to alter the entire rack he is on to fit a larger cage. This is why I let him free-range. I just found it strange when he decided NOT to leave the cage in addition to the strange behavior. After a month of not wanting out and those spots looking nasty, I closed up the door to give him a sense of security and to monitor him. I will have to look into this hood as well when I upgrade. Does anyone on here know of people or a place where used stuff could be purchased at a discount? I'd had to trash all this stuff when I upgrade- plus Ill need the money to supplement the changes

Mine free ranges, but his cage is his room. So he will sit in the window for a few hours mean mugging the neighbors, then do 2-3 laps around the room looking for rogue chams, then come back to the cage. But with 100% freedom, he spends 75% of his time in his room. Which really works out for me and providing UVB light.

 

[Guest 55448]

@FrozenRain00 First off welcome. Your going to receive a ton of feedback so just have an open mind and know we are trying to help you. See all my feedback in red bold.

I am trying my best to keep an open mind. I came here for more advice, it's just a matter of who and what- either way I am here for Houdini's health.

So regarding your post- would you say that the MistKing settings I previously had, prior the veterinarian's advice were fine? With those settings, the cage did dry out completely and that was at the 2-hour timeframes (for 2 minutes) when the mister ran. He seemed ok- minus the unshedding spots. I chose to change the setting and listen to the vet because she was the 'professional' whom I paid nearly 200 bucks to look at him. Although I am not certain I will be going back now because some flags are glaring.

Night-time temps- I have no issue cranking the ac lower- I like cooler temps to sleep myself. I just thought if it got too low it'd be unsafe for him. Everything I read on varying forums, breeder sites, chameleon care websites all vary- and now I have a vet with a completely different view on what to do so it's like- who the hell do you listen to that's correct? *face palm* I just want him happy and healthy again. He is pretty perky and looking good this a.m. tho, so that's a plus.

Cage size: I know it's on the smaller size. When I bought it I was told this was the size he needed for an adult veiled from the breeders, after I got everything all good and dropped over 1k on the final setup, I found that there was an XLarge and I wasn't sold the proper sized one- so now I have to wait to adapt my apartment for the space needed as well as budget in for the new shelving unit, cage, etc... that goes with it all. And I need to figure out what to do with his old cage because I don't want to scrap it. I let him free-range to allow for the ability to move around as needed- but with his behavior changing (not wanting to leave the cage) and his injury, I kept him in the cage to monitor. As noted when I left the door open prior to me closing it up, he stopped leaving himself anyway- this is when I began questioning his behavior changes. I'm going to the reptile faire tomorrow to see what they have and I can check prices and see my options at that time.

Basking Temps: My temps are all pretty on par with what I had noted. I have 2 temp gauges in the cage itself- and I do have a point and click gun that I use, as well as a zilla point and click reptile temp checker (although I use the gun more because I trust it). The gauges all have been right on par with what the gun runs. I am using a 60W halogen spotlight bulb (the box says it uses 60watts to generate 75watt output)- so maybe that's where the temp confusion is. This is the bulb I moved to after the reptile basking bulb problems- honestly, if he has a burn it would've been from the basking bulb because the thing was a nightmare. (I moved to the halogen spotlight bulb AFTER he started having issues. I figured maybe the lights weren't right, so I bought new fixtures and bulbs to see if it'd help. At that time, his patches just appeared to me like his typical shed. Please see the photo attached for clarification on the bulb. I originally had it at approx. 8 inches above basking (so it sat on top of the metal rack directly). It gave him up to 100 degrees basking- at max. I moved it up another 7 inches per vet recommendation and now the basking spot is reading between 88-94 degrees now- which the vet said was safer for him. Again, the patches showed up before the current bulb I now have came into play.

Food: Thank you for the tips on the food- I'm going to see what they have at the reptile faire tomorrow and stock up on some different bugs. If he continues to act stubborn and refuses to eat the other nutritional bugs- what do you suggest? I do gutload the bugs before he gets them. I use a cricket pen which has food and water for them. I use to feed them veggies and stuff but I was advised to use "Fluker's High Calcium cricket diet" so I switched to that. For the super worms, they ate what they were housed in- plus I'd lay shredded potato slices on top of their substrate and they'd eat that. Definitely will be picking up calcium without D3 supplement tomorrow though.

I don't want to sound rude here, but I was slightly off-put by the last comment. I am frustrated with everyone's advice being so varied and not knowing which direction to go. To clarify, my way of dealing with his new aggression was not to 'take away everything,' my way of monitoring his skin issue and leaving him alone was to let him be. He started getting aggressive anytime someone came near his cage. He stopped eating out of my hand and he literally began running into the corner of his cage hissing if someone walked by. It's only myself and occasionally my boyfriend here, so there wasn't any logical reason for the sudden change as he wasn't being harassed or provoked- he just... started behaving like a different chameleon. To me, that says- leave me alone. So I built a bug feeder cup as advised by another site and I closed his cage so he didn't feel like his space could be invaded. He stopped leaving his cage willfully on his own so I closed the door hoping he would feel safer. His behavior began way before I closed up the cage. He went 3 weeks with the door closed, after being recommended to do so on another site as well as reinforced by the vet. Houdini hasn't hissed when anyone has walked by lately, and as I noted yesterday when I opened his cage to take him out and give him a shower/try the olive oil- he didn't fight me, hiss, or try to rip my finger off. That's an improvement in the behavior from when the door was left open, so I don't know. I did leave his door open yesterday and he did not attempt to leave the cage (even when I wasn't in the room), actually he clung to the top corner furthest from the door so he doesn't seem to want to free-range at this point. I'm sure a bigger setup will definitely help, but again, I can't fork out that money until I situate where it will be and see how much exactly I need to invest again. I am curious though, will immediately changing his entire surroundings stress him out more? - or no? Just trying to do what is best at this point, even small improvements are better than none atm. I have to clean his cage next week so if I make those changes it'd be done at that time.

Vet: I never said she didn't look at him. She did take him out, wrapped him in a towel and combated his incessant desire to rip her fingers off. She noted he was strong- grippers, etc... and definitely had energy. She scratched at the spots (which I felt horrible because if they hurt him she definitely didn't make it better by scratching at them). Said they weren't mites and just looked like badly stuck shed- hence the advice to increase the humidity. I also did not like that she dewormed him... not only was it an additional cost, but I don't feel that medicine should be given if there isn't a need and she did not test stool to ensure that was the case. She did say she 'dewormed reptiles often because these little guys often get parasites from their diet' - who was I to argue? They recently called asking me to bring him back for his month re-check and another deworm, I don't believe I will be going. What I didn't like was that she did pull the info. from a vet forum- that seemed a little lacking of knowledge to me.

What are your thoughts on what the spots are if you don't think a burn or mites? I know someone on here said to avoid the olive oil (after I had already applied it), I can say that this a.m. his sides and knees do appear to be shedding more, so the olive oil must have encouraged some of the edges of the skin to peel up further than it had for the past month or so. My boyfriend also thought it looked better, but who knows. He was moving up and down his cage more as well which is an improvement. I'm just going to make the changes I've read from the advice thus far and see what I can pick up tomorrow at the swap- lighting, bugs, potential new cage, etc...

I'll definitely check out the podcasts- didn't realize those existed so thank you!

Again I appreciate your advice, time, and help. I hope I didn't come off brash in any responses- just wanted to clarify anything that needed based on some responses. It gets frustrating when you don't know who to turn to or what advice is correct- especially when you find that you possibly should not trust a vet that operates out of a bird and reptile specialist clinic. We shall see how things progress, any positive changes with him are desired changes.

 

[Guest 55448]

Mine free ranges, but his cage is his room. So he will sit in the window for a few hours mean mugging the neighbors, then do 2-3 laps around the room looking for rogue chams, then come back to the cage. But with 100% freedom, he spends 75% of his time in his room. Which really works out for me and providing UVB light.

"Mean mugging the neighbors" lol that's hilarious! My Houdini likes to watch the trains roll by out of my window. Do you by chance have any pics of how you have things set-up with the free-range aspect? branches, trees... etc?

 

[Beman]

Go with the feedback you got from @Mawtyplant on the light... I do not have any experience with these. I only use incandescent bulbs. So if she says they produce that kind of heat then do what she says.

 

[Guest 55448]

Welcome to the forum!

You said ..."His name is "Houdini" and he inherited his name because he used to escape his original setup"....my first veiled chameleon male was Houdini too for exactly the same reason!

Regarding supplementing...I dust lightly at almost every feeding with Rep Cal phos free calcium powder to ensure that the chameleon gets enough calcium. I dust twice a month with a phos free calcium/D3 powder lightly and twice a month with herptivite powder lightly. Herptivite has a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A which will not bile up in the system like prEformed sources can. This leaves it up to you to decide if/when the chameleon needs some prEformed vitamin A.

It's also important to feed/gutload the insects well. I feed/gutload them with greens such as dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc. and veggies such as carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potatoes, etc. a d a very small amount of fruit such as berries, apple, pear, melon, etc.

With adult veiled chameleons I don't recommend plants made of plastic or material. I only use real ones that are non -toxic.

For years I have used the long linear reptisun 5.0 UVB light.

I don't mist nearly that often with veiled chameleons. This may have to vary depending on where you live. (I live in Canada.)

I don't know for sure if olive oil is a good idea or not. I've never tried it so I don't want to tell you if its right or wrong. I do know that heavy misting is not a good answer to shedding problems usually. If it's a burn I would use flamazine or silva dense on the spots lightly....but check with the vet first.

I hope this helps!

Never heard of that stuff- I will look into it. Silva dense and flamazine. I may need to find a new vet tho. :/

 

[Guest 55448]

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