pet stores

[argulor]

so i work at a big chain petstore and i think we’re absolutely shit at a lot. with our chams about 4 have died in a row (this was pre corona) the only reason why the 5th didnt die was bc i took her home. we just got better lights put in for them but i kno the uvb is incorrect and our feeders get dusted with D3 every day for all reptiles, its either calcium with d3 or no calcium at all. we mist twice a day for a few seconds bc management doesnt give us the time to do more. i feel horrible that i cant do more for the animals... but i also feel like i try my best to get people out the door with the necessities for their animal. just a few days ago i sold a cham to a 10 yr old girl and her parents, she knew more abt the chams than most adults and i further educated all of them on the care of them and re directed them here for additional help. just bc i sent one cham to a good home doesnt make me feel good. bc i kno that our other babies have probably gone to bad owners and theres nothing i can do about it aside from educate. i recently went into another pet store and saw a horrible setup there were 6 juveniles in one maybe 24 inch container and no hiding spaces,,, i felt so bad for them. at my store we have a tiny ass enclosure but only one juvie at a time. i would just like other people’s opinions of the situation in general.. am i a horrible person for working for a chain petstore and selling those animals? even tho i do my damn best to make sure each animal will have a good life ?

 

[Beman]

I don't think your a horrible person. I think the big box stores are in it for a profit. And the small stores rarely have employees that even know what they are doing. It is what it is. And honestly people that do not do homework on the care for any animal they get and rely on the 10 minutes with a store clerk to "teach" them well that is pretty crappy in my opinion. So it is not just the stores, while they are a large part of incorrect info some responsibility falls on the person buying the animal.

Maybe try to insist on a proper supplement schedule with the chams at least. Try making changes where you can. Honestly if you are making even a small difference then it is worth it I think.

 

[The Wild One]

Your not horrible for working at the store, the horrible thing you can do is not care about the chams. The important thing is that you care and are trying to make the enclosures better. Try to learn as much as you can about chams and make improvements like a misting systems, proper dusting, live plants, and take out the substrate. When the females need to lay cover up the enclosure and put a sign about what is happening. Once you get the chams husbandry correct, is move on to other animals and make sure everything is spot on for them. This is what I plan to do once I can get a job, is slowly improve the big chain stores. Because If they are in it for the money, they will get more money if they actually know what they are doing and the animals live longer. You can start by picking an animal (id start with the most popular/best seller) and ask as many questions that pop into your head. Try to find the answers to your questions because most likely the customers have the same questions .

 

[argulor]

I don't think your a horrible person. I think the big box stores are in it for a profit. And the small stores rarely have employees that even know what they are doing. It is what it is. And honestly people that do not do homework on the care for any animal they get and rely on the 10 minutes with a store clerk to "teach" them well that is pretty crappy in my opinion. So it is not just the stores, while they are a large part of incorrect info some responsibility falls on the person buying the animal.

Maybe try to insist on a proper supplement schedule with the chams at least. Try making changes where you can. Honestly if you are making even a small difference then it is worth it I think.

thats the thing its so difficult when the only thing we really have the power to do is educate. im not a manager or anything and i cant make any changes to policy. a few months ago the head of our store was trying to say that the reptiles didnt need water conditioner........ i took it to the manager of pet care and it took her arguing with the store manager to even get him to code out a bottle of reptisafe for us to use. just goes to show how the higher ups only care abt the money. i also dont have the power to refuse a sale unless someone is blatantly saying they will directly harm the animal, i cant refuse to someone who will harm them through negligence or lack of knowledge. all i can do is start piling up their cart and scare them away with money. i know theres no way i can change their supplement schedules, everyone will say they arent with us long enough for it to matter. we dont even give our guinea pigs proper vitamin c supplements...

 

[MissSkittles]

You aren’t at all horrible for working at a big box store. Besides the fact that we all have to make a living, you are doing your best to educate the shoppers about the correct care and hopefully your coworkers have learned from you and are doing the same. It sounds that you’ve been working to improve the conditions of the animals at the store. The poor creatures have been bred into an uncertain fate and someone needs to take up for them, which it sounds like you are trying to do.
I’m not sure if it’s sad or just stupid that the corporate overlords of big box pet stores don’t realize how much more money they could be putting in their pockets by promoting and selling the correct set ups, especially for chameleons.

 

[argulor]

Your not horrible for working at the store, the horrible thing you can do is not care about the chams. The important thing is that you care and are trying to make the enclosures better. Try to learn as much as you can about chams and make improvements like a misting systems, proper dusting, live plants, and take out the substrate. When the females need to lay cover up the enclosure and put a sign about what is happening. Once you get the chams husbandry correct, is move on to other animals and make sure everything is spot on for them. This is what I plan to do once I can get a job, is slowly improve the big chain stores. Because If they are in it for the money, they will get more money if they actually know what they are doing and the animals live longer. You can start by picking an animal (id start with the most popular/best seller) and ask as many questions that pop into your head. Try to find the answers to your questions because most likely the customers have the same questions .

theres no way to get their husbandry correct. we cant change the enclosures theyre in and all we have to feed them are small crickets and the occasional meal worm. hell we put water dishes in the cham tanks. even if i complain to corporate they arent gonna change one store, they would have to change every single store, which is not happening in their minds

 

[Antoinetteandco]

so i work at a big chain petstore and i think we’re absolutely shit at a lot. with our chams about 4 have died in a row (this was pre corona) the only reason why the 5th didnt die was bc i took her home. we just got better lights put in for them but i kno the uvb is incorrect and our feeders get dusted with D3 every day for all reptiles, its either calcium with d3 or no calcium at all. we mist twice a day for a few seconds bc management doesnt give us the time to do more. i feel horrible that i cant do more for the animals... but i also feel like i try my best to get people out the door with the necessities for their animal. just a few days ago i sold a cham to a 10 yr old girl and her parents, she knew more abt the chams than most adults and i further educated all of them on the care of them and re directed them here for additional help. just bc i sent one cham to a good home doesnt make me feel good. bc i kno that our other babies have probably gone to bad owners and theres nothing i can do about it aside from educate. i recently went into another pet store and saw a horrible setup there were 6 juveniles in one maybe 24 inch container and no hiding spaces,,, i felt so bad for them. at my store we have a tiny ass enclosure but only one juvie at a time. i would just like other people’s opinions of the situation in general.. am i a horrible person for working for a chain petstore and selling those animals? even tho i do my damn best to make sure each animal will have a good life ?

Hey I work at a chain too and am the live specialist. As my district manger said unforntaely the name on the store is "blank chain " not yours or mine. We want to do what's best but it is a business and we have to follow their policies. Do your best , do a ton of personal research . I can refuse a live sale at my store if it doesn't seem like a good match. Best trick is to say why don't you go home do some more research and come back tomorrow. You re not a bad person. It very hard I work full-time but when I'm not there something always goes wrong or an animal gets sold to someone it shouldn't have. Chain pet stores actually have a vet fund for your livestock, you just really have to force managements hand.

 

[MissSkittles]

theres no way to get their husbandry correct. we cant change the enclosures theyre in and all we have to feed them are small crickets and the occasional meal worm. hell we put water dishes in the cham tanks. even if i complain to corporate they arent gonna change one store, they would have to change every single store, which is not happening in their minds

I bought Stella from a big box store while in a vulnerable state. Went there for other animal supplies one afternoon...saw two female chams in a tank. One was digging in the mud. Dead mealworms in a dish. Bone dry dripper with dirty water dish below it. Talked to manager who said they have to follow corporate policy and assured me profusely that they care for the animals...are given fresh water and food daily & checked on thru the day. Had to exchange an item the next afternoon. Same chameleon still digging in the mud. Same bone dry dripper. Same dirty water bowl. Same dead mealworms in dish. They thought digging cham may be gravid (she was plump) & were going to “put her out back” in a few weeks. I was a bother so they sold her to me for like $25. Thankfully she is healthy. It isn’t just about having a mud substrate, incorrect lighting, temps, humidity etc because of corporate protocols. In at least over 24 hrs no one had given them fresh food or water. Either the employees had given up or didn’t care. So, what I’m getting at is while you may not be able to make the big changes, you can continue to do your best for these animals, even if it is just giving fresh food or water.

 

[Beman]

thats the thing its so difficult when the only thing we really have the power to do is educate. im not a manager or anything and i cant make any changes to policy. a few months ago the head of our store was trying to say that the reptiles didnt need water conditioner........ i took it to the manager of pet care and it took her arguing with the store manager to even get him to code out a bottle of reptisafe for us to use. just goes to show how the higher ups only care abt the money. i also dont have the power to refuse a sale unless someone is blatantly saying they will directly harm the animal, i cant refuse to someone who will harm them through negligence or lack of knowledge. all i can do is start piling up their cart and scare them away with money. i know theres no way i can change their supplement schedules, everyone will say they arent with us long enough for it to matter. we dont even give our guinea pigs proper vitamin c supplements...

Well the problem is that the deaths of the animals they write off. So unless you are able to just go and make your case to have the conditions changed within the store then they will not care. Honestly supplements are cheap and if your supplementing anyways you might as well use the correct items.

As far as not being able to refuse a sale. Well you can tell them the depth of care required and the expense that goes with it. I know as a parent I would rather be given the correct info rather then dive into something where I am told one thing and then find out later that the expense is much greater then I planned on.

 

[Antoinetteandco]

so i work at a big chain petstore and i think we’re absolutely shit at a lot. with our chams about 4 have died in a row (this was pre corona) the only reason why the 5th didnt die was bc i took her home. we just got better lights put in for them but i kno the uvb is incorrect and our feeders get dusted with D3 every day for all reptiles, its either calcium with d3 or no calcium at all. we mist twice a day for a few seconds bc management doesnt give us the time to do more. i feel horrible that i cant do more for the animals... but i also feel like i try my best to get people out the door with the necessities for their animal. just a few days ago i sold a cham to a 10 yr old girl and her parents, she knew more abt the chams than most adults and i further educated all of them on the care of them and re directed them here for additional help. just bc i sent one cham to a good home doesnt make me feel good. bc i kno that our other babies have probably gone to bad owners and theres nothing i can do about it aside from educate. i recently went into another pet store and saw a horrible setup there were 6 juveniles in one maybe 24 inch container and no hiding spaces,,, i felt so bad for them. at my store we have a tiny ass enclosure but only one juvie at a time. i would just like other people’s opinions of the situation in general.. am i a horrible person for working for a chain petstore and selling those animals? even tho i do my damn best to make sure each animal will have a good

Well the problem is that the deaths of the animals they write off. So unless you are able to just go and make your case to have the conditions changed within the store then they will not care. Honestly supplements are cheap and if your supplementing anyways you might as well use the correct items.

As far as not being able to refuse a sale. Well you can tell them the depth of care required and the expense that goes with it. I know as a parent I would rather be given the correct info rather then dive into something where I am told one thing and then find out later that the expense is much greater then I planned on.

Also explain the expansive of the animal. For example this chameleon care costs as much as getting tires rotated on your car. I ve even been do right cruel tbh like when someone wants to feed geckos just worms never crickets. Alot of customers want the reptiles but not the bugs . So I educate them on the bugs first and that usually deters them too ?

 

[Antoinetteandco]

Also explain the expansive of the animal. For example this chameleon care costs as much as getting tires rotated on your car. I ve even been do right cruel tbh like when someone wants to feed geckos just worms never crickets. Alot of customers want the reptiles but not the bugs . So I educate them on the bugs first and that usually deters them too ?

And about braining frozen pinkie mice for picky snakes

 

[argulor]

i kno this has been dead for a while, but i just experienced the fallout of uneducated pet parents,,, 3 people around 20 yrs old came in and wanted a ball python, i cant refuse sales so fine i sold it to them, then they mentioned they have a veiled they bought from us a few weeks ago, i ask them abt the setups and what they know, expecting them to rattle off info, they told me he was in a glass tank with no misting, free roaming bugs, bad substrate and no places to hide, i gave them a crash course on proper cham care and they asked me if i could take him from them...... they didnt know the proper lighting for him either, or the dusting schedules, or anything really.... and my coworker sold him to them without telling them anything.. anyway the next say i meet up with them and take the baby boy, i spend my whole paycheck on getting him a temporary setup. they had named him Xbox 360, goes to show how they rlly saw him as an item... needless to say he has a home for now and a forever home lined up. it is never a good idea to buy what u dont know about, please do your research and be educated beforehand .

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Hi argulor,

I'm glad you bumped this thread; I'm new here, and I might not have otherwise seen it.

I see a bigger picture here—one of conscience, ethics, and self-respect—one that I've been through many many times. The litmus test for me has always been the same, whether a job, personal relationship, ethical dilemma, or whatever; it boils down to two questions:
1. Can I sleep at night, and
2. Can I look myself in the mirror in the morning.

If I fail at either, I know something isn't right, and the only solution for me is to take action to change whatever I can—or need to—to be able to pass those tests. Sometimes it's something as simple as an apology. Other times, I've dropped people I thought were friends, moved my residence, a couple of times I had to quit the jobs I was working at, and one time I felt I had no choice but to call animal control. It's not always easy—life seldom is—and I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do; it's for each person to ask for—and answer to—themselves.

I think we've all seen instances where animal care and profit have been at odds, or just animal neglect or cruelty. Imagine the things veterinarians see on a daily basis. ?

All I'm offering is a different perspective, gleaned from life experience. I hope there my be something in it that you'll find helpful or of use.

 

[argulor]

Hi argulor,

I'm glad you bumped this thread; I'm new here, and I might not have otherwise seen it.

I see a bigger picture here—one of conscience, ethics, and self-respect—one that I've been through many many times. The litmus test for me has always been the same, whether a job, personal relationship, ethical dilemma, or whatever; it boils down to two questions:
1. Can I sleep at night, and
2. Can I look myself in the mirror in the morning.

If I fail at either, I know something isn't right, and the only solution for me is to take action to change whatever I can—or need to—to be able to pass those tests. Sometimes it's something as simple as an apology. Other times, I've dropped people I thought were friends, moved my residence, a couple of times I had to quit the jobs I was working at, and one time I felt I had no choice but to call animal control. It's not always easy—life seldom is—and I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do; it's for each person to ask for—and answer to—themselves.

I think we've all seen instances where animal care and profit have been at odds, or just animal neglect or cruelty. Imagine the things veterinarians see on a daily basis. ?

All I'm offering is a different perspective, gleaned from life experience. I hope there my be something in it that you'll find helpful or of use.

hey thank you for taking the time to type this out!! i think that i have done enough good to face myself, i feel like i have helped enough animals and customers to be satisfied with myself. every day people are so happy with my assistance and i truly feel like im improving life for their animals as well ....

 

[kinyonga]

@argulor you are in a kind of interesting position. If you can make the store realize that if they don't look after the animal it will likely die and they will write it off but won't have made any profit by doing that...but if they give care to the animal they can sell it for the profit and not only will they get that profit but the people will keep coming back to buy supplies for the animal and they can make profit on those supplies as well....and might even buy more animals.

Even if they do sell the animal they don't care for for the profit, and it dies soon after its taken home, they won't get a repeat customer nor will they customer be buying the supplies needed to care for the chameleon because if it dies and they don't need the supplies.

Perhaps you can even talk/chat with the other employees and explain to them the proper care for the chameleons and then they will learn too.

Just a thought.

 

[argulor]

@argulor you are in a kind of interesting position. If you can make the store realize that if they don't look after the animal it will likely die and they will write it off but won't have made any profit by doing that...but if they give care to the animal they can sell it for the profit and not only will they get that profit but the people will keep coming back to buy supplies of the animal and they can make profit on those supplies as well....and might even buy more animals.

Even if they do sell the animal they don't care for for the profit, and it dies soon after its taken home, they won't get a repeat customer nor will they customer be buying the supplies needed to care for the chameleon because if it dies and they don't need the supplies.

Perhaps you can even talk/chat with the other employees and explain to them the proper care for the chameleons and then they will learn too.

Just a thought.

i have talked to a lot of them about proper care, but only one person who works with the animals is willing to really learn, ive given up with another person bc they sold the chameleon without telling these customers anything.... unfortunately most of the employees just use our bad care guides and thats it.... i have tried so hard to slowly educate my coworkers about the reptiles but they seem so stubborn and like they just arent willing to do shit about anything aside from do basic care on the animals. im having a talk with the manager about the different types of calcium but i dont even know if we are allowed to use calcium without d3 as it may not be corporate approved

 

[argulor]

i just got word from my manager that the calcium we dust our bugs with has d3 and that we cant offer calcium without d3 since its not ordered from corporate:/

 

[Antoinetteandco]

i just got word from my manager that the calcium we dust our bugs with has d3 and that we cant offer calcium without d3 since its not ordered from corporate:/

Do you work with the animals directly? I have some ideas. You said you work at Petsmart right? So they sell Cal without D3?

 

[argulor]

Do you work with the animals directly? I have some ideas. You said you work at Petsmart right? So they sell Cal without D3?

yes i do work directly with the animals,, and i work at petsmart, and we dont sell the calcium withoit d3 separately but we do sell it in a food sample pack

 

[Antoinetteandco]

yes i do work directly with the animals,, and i work at petsmart, and we dont sell the calcium withoit d3 separately but we do sell it in a food sample pack

Wow that actually suprised me. My store has like 5 different cal options even though our reptile section is way smaller than Petsmart. I was going to say you can fight them on it and store use it if you carry it there. Other thing check out your stores uvbs... They re usually "off". My store di dnt even realize some idiot put plain floursent s in before I started working there. In my state there's mandatory maintenance and board of agriculture checks. See if the uvbs are right that will help alot. If not you can dig in at corporate on their audit s if that makes sense. Second this one I'm uncomfortable with because I don't want you to get fired but you could personally buy cal without d3 and container swap the cal at work with it....not recommended