Newb thinking about making a pet shop rescue

[zombiepixel]

Hey All,

I was in my local pet shop yesterday picking up crickets and I saw this small chameleon enclosure filled with moss substrate and a bunch of dead plants. I didn't think anything was in there so I walked away. It wasn't until I was paying at the register did I notice a little veiled crawling along one of the side screens.

Since then i've been thinking about going back and buying the whole thing and doing a complete overhaul. My question I guess is, This cham probably isn't in the best of conditions. Would it be smart to even try to nurture it back to health? My girlfriend is a vet tech at an clinic that treats exotics so we would have a place to take him/her if that helps us any.

I am a newb with chameleons but i've owned numerous breeds of reptiles in the past (long long time ago) and I currently have an adult bearded dragon that i've raised since she was a baby. I've been wanting a chameleon for years and i've almost pulled the trigger a few times.

Here are my worries: Of course being a newb i'm worried about humidity and drip systems, that's something I don't really have to worry about with a beardy. How hard is it to get an enclosure within ideal levels without the worry of constant adjustment? I have a pretty busy schedule and I tend to work long hours. In terms of feedings and misting would around 8 am/pm be ok in regards to the enclosures light cycles? Sorry for the long post.

 

[vindicatedornot]

I don't believe its right to buy a chameleon in that condition from a store because they will think its ok to keep them like that. If you buy it you are just supporting their bad husbandry. I would talk to the manager and see about them fixing it or donating it to you to save its life. You could also give him the link to brads veiled husbandry site. But If you really want to buy it go for it.

-Andrea

 

[Syn]

I agree completely with what vindicated said. Do not buy it, ask them to donate or let you adopt it.

This will only teach them that people will buy animals that look like they are in bad condition, and that they should keep doing it.

 

[chambabysitter1]

If you feel the need to take a chameleon in dire need from a store, I would recommend not supporting the store directly.

A lot of owners are willing to let go of animals they know are in poor condition. So if you notify the owner the animal may be on his last leg, he may let it go for free.

If you support the store financially, you could be encouraging them to go buy more cheap chameleons, and treat them the same as the one you received.

Vet care won't be free or cheap, but you seem aware of the fact, and I really commend you in tackling such an endeavor.

An interesting thread to check out: https://www.chameleonforums.com/frustration-25019/

A good chameleon resource to start out with:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Hydration questions:
1. Humidity is easy to keep as long as there are plenty of live plants.
2. You have room for some fluctuation for humidity
3. 12 on and 12 off is just fine. Try to match the sun outside, but now that it is summer, that is probably close enough.
4. Feeding and misting that early is just fine. I would leave a dripper on for the day though if you can't mist before he goes to bed.

 

[zombiepixel]

That's what I thought. maybe i'll try the donation route. i'm really worried about the enclosure. I'm thinking about buying a setup and just trying to make it work first before I buy a cham. If I can't with my schedule I won't get one.

I gutload the crickets for my bearded dragon with collard greens, dandelion greens and flukers hydration gel. They are medium sized crickets so they range anywhere from .25" - 3/4" in size. Would crickets on this diet be ok to feed to a veiled? I also dust the individual feedings with reptcal calcium and vitamins.

 

[Rocky]

I really do not agree with this at all... if you see an animal in need of help why wouldn't you buy it? It will obviously die if you do not. Of course you need to express how important it is to have proper husbandry and that you are only buying to give it a better home... but do you really think the animal should die because the current owners dont care?

 

[zombiepixel]

Honestly I haven't even seen the condition of the chameleon, heck i don't even know what species it is. I'll go by this week see what i'm dealing with. I honestly don't mind buying one from a mom and pop shop like this, I agree that it gives them the wrong message but I also think there are more pros than cons for trying to save an animal, I'll definetly try the adoption approach first though.

 

[Pure]

Personally I wouldn't get the Cham. For the reasons stated and because this is your first Cham. A sickly one isn't really a good choice. You need one that has all his facilities wile you try and figure out if the responsibility of keeping one is for you. You may start with one and decide it is too much. (This is exactly how I got my Melleri. Guy didn't have the time they need.) Keeping a Cham is demanding on your time. Keeping one that isn't well off is worse. So the sickly one just isn't a good choice for a first time keeper. Don't take what I'm saying as a negative toward your abilities. That's not the case. It's just hard to judge the level of commitment with a first time owner. I can say this only having chams a couple of months now because this really holds true with any pet.

Now about this enclosure. What kind is it? If it's anything else besides a screen, don't get it. Also local pet shops IME can't compete with LLL on their cage prices. Most of the time even with shipping they are way cheaper on cages. So unless he is willing to let it go for dirt cheap. Order one from here http://lllreptile.com/

As far as your worry about getting the setup right and not constantly having to make adjustment. Eh this is no problem as long as you do your research and remember different species have different needs. Besides this site, AdCham is about the best place to start your research into the different species. http://www.adcham.com/

edit: just read your post. If the animal is in good condition. Disregard my first paragraph...go for it

 

[dodolah]

I really do not agree with this at all... if you see an animal in need of help why wouldn't you buy it? It will obviously die if you do not. Of course you need to express how important it is to have proper husbandry and that you are only buying to give it a better home... but do you really think the animal should die because the current owners dont care?

The dilemma comes from the fact that when you buy the sick chameleon, you essentially opening up a new slot for the pet store to fill with another chameleon that will ended up dead as well.

So, you indirectly supporting the store to continue their practice of providing improper care for their animals.
You might save that one, but in the end you help the store to kill the other 30 chameleons.

 

[cushcameleon]

I believe there will never be a right or wrong answer for rescuing chameleons from pet stores, simply because there are two very sound arguments for both sides. One argument is based off of the simple theories of economics, while the other is based off of what your heart tells you to do. I was in your same dilemma and after several days of thought and advice from members on the forum, I purchased the chameleon. I am sure that many people still disagree with my decision, however I went with my gut and tried my best to save a life. In the end, the chameleon didn't survive (it died within 48 hours) but I took a lot from it and learned about the evils of certain pet stores. I understand your concern for this chameleon and I think that if your willing to take on the challenge, you should go with your gut and try to save a life. Keep in mind that the pet store employees may in fact become hostile towards you when you begin asking if you can "take the cham off their hands", this happened to me once. I started off by politely addressing the manager, but almost instantly she began raising her voice and became very angry. She absolutely refused to even lower the price and she was convinced I was trying to "steal" the chameleon. So be sure to use caution when approaching the employee/manager and keep in mind that it may not go as smoothly as you think. Also, don't end up trying to save this chameleon if you feel that it could be detrimental to your chameleon experience as a whole. These creatures are truly astounding animals and it can be very upsetting to loose one. Remember to go in with your head held high, but also be realistic about it. The odds of actually saving the chameleon could be very low and you are certainly not to blame if it doesn't end up going the way you hoped.

 

[dodolah]

I have a pretty busy schedule and I tend to work long hours. In terms of feedings and misting would around 8 am/pm be ok in regards to the enclosures light cycles? Sorry for the long post.

Based on your concern and the fact that your exposure to chameleon is relatively new, I would highly advise you not to purchase the chameleon albeit your good intention to rescue it.


Rescuing the chameleon of the store by buying it is the same as rewarding their negligence.

Also, if you tend to work long hours and have busy schedule, you will have difficulty in tuning your chameleon's habitat to optimum.
Chameleon requires attention, commitment, and money.
In the end, not jumping into this so sudden (like you are about to do now) might be the wisest thing you can do.
I am being honest.. but, after caring for chameleon, bearded dragon's and gecko's care regiment seems to be much much easier.

It is hard enough to care for a very healthy chameleon let alone the not so well one.


Hope that helps

 

[laurie]

Just to give you an example of care for a cham versus care for a chameleon, I have 6 bearded dragons and 2 uro's. Together they are less work and worry than any one of my chameleons. A chameleon is a serious time commitment, if you work long hours and the chameleons has health issues, you simply may not provide adequate care for it to survive.

 

[chequepoint]

You're honestly going to end up just spending a lot of money on an animal that will die anyways. You might as well purchase a healthy chameleon from a breeder like you're going to end up doing in the end, and donating a couple of hundred dollars that you would have spent on the animal and vet visits to an animal shelter if you really need to burn cash.

Mom and pop stores have no excuse for improper animal husbandry, because they don't have to answer to some faceless corporate entity. If they're carrying an animal that they can't care for or sell quickly, its because they're either stupid or greedy.

 

[Pure]

You're honestly going to end up just spending a lot of money on an animal that will die anyways. You might as well purchase a healthy chameleon from a breeder like you're going to end up doing in the end, and donating a couple of hundred dollars that you would have spent on the animal and vet visits to an animal shelter if you really need to burn cash.

Cheque, This is a really presumptuous thing to say. We have no idea of the condition of this animal. So to say it's going to die anyways is a little rash. I get what you are trying to say. Maybe rewording it a bit would be a better way of getting your point across.

 

[zombiepixel]

Yeah I see all your points, It isn't like i'm going to be alone in this, it will be me and my girlfriend and she is home more and works closer to home than I do. In my head i've pretty much decided not to go through with it. What I want to do, since this is something i've been wanting to do for a long long time, I want to buy the setup and work on getting everything to an optimal range. If I can do that then i'll start looking at breeders to buy from. If I can't i'll sell the equipment.

 

[eisentrauti]

Couldn't you go to some authorities ? Here it's possible to say a official vet who looks for the state of things in such stores

 

[dodolah]

Couldn't you go to some authorities ? Here it's possible to say a official vet who looks for the state of things in such stores

only works when the official knew how to care for chameleons.
Unfortunately, so far, they know almost nothing how to care for one.
They would go there, check, and find nothing wrong with the care (eventhough the chameleon's legs are making a loop shape).

 

[Pure]

Yeah I see all your points, It isn't like i'm going to be alone in this, it will be me and my girlfriend and she is home more and works closer to home than I do. In my head i've pretty much decided not to go through with it. What I want to do, since this is something i've been wanting to do for a long long time, I want to buy the setup and work on getting everything to an optimal range. If I can do that then i'll start looking at breeders to buy from. If I can't i'll sell the equipment.

Good man! Unless you live in the arctic circle you should have no issues finding a breeder. You may have to have him shipped, but that's not much of a big deal as I'm sure you know.

 

[dodolah]

Yeah I see all your points, It isn't like i'm going to be alone in this, it will be me and my girlfriend and she is home more and works closer to home than I do.

If that is the situation, I think practically it will be hers.
So, ask your girlfriend if she wants a chameleon as her pet.

It might work if she herself also wants a chameleon and passionate about it.
But, if she is just tolerating your passion, this is where problems usually arrive.

My ex room mate loves dog and impulsively buys dogs all the time. His wife and I are the one who ended up taking care the mess He goes home after work and plays with the pooch.
At the end, the wife got mad and gave the dog away to someone who actually wants a dog as pet not as a cuddly toy.
Then they will stop talking for couple of weeks. Made up. and the cycle repeats.


Right before I moved to a new house, I told my roommate he should get one of these instead:

Anyway, I ramble too much.
Bottom line is you should research research research, and have the setup ready way before the chameleon arrived. Test run the cage as if you have the chameleon already inside.
See, if the mistings create drainage problem, check the temp and humidity with live plants inside, and so on.. adjust accordingly.

Chameleon breeders are plentiful here in US. Check our sponsors and the classified forums.
Most will ship to your place.
You would have a very nice experience when you start things right.

Good luck.

 

[zombiepixel]

LOL, I don't want to make it sound like i'll never be home. I will be home promptly every night, but there is always a possibility that I may have to pull an all-nighter. In those situations my girlfriend will be there to help me out.

She already has a nintendog, she hasn't fed it in months.


On that note, are there any good buying resources for enclosure materials? I was thinking about going the kit route but if i can find the individual parts cheaper i would rather do that.