Need advice, thinking cham has parasites??

[rosefountain]

Hi there —

My boyfriend and I brought home a chameleon from a chain store. First day he seemed a little lethargic, we thought it was just stress from the move. Second and third days at home go by and he’s eating minimally. Only about 1-2 super worms a day and maybe one cricket, which were all dusted in calcium powder without d3. But on the second day home we noticed he was holding his right eye shut intermittently, then sometimes his left. He’s staying at the top of the cage a lot but goes down to the middle sometimes. He’s very lethargic and doesn’t have a lot of energy, very low appetite or interest in food which seems like the opposite of what it should be. We are thinking his symptoms point towards parasites. His poop isn’t how it should look either, very runny.

We have a vet appointment tomorrow at 10:30, but I’m wondering if anyone has any advice on how to help him?

Thank you!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, 4-5 months, 4 days in our care.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Almost never, only twice. To bring him home and to take him to the store again to have someone check his eye out. We got him 4 days ago.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? We have been putting 5 dusted crickets, 2 super worms, and 2 meal worms in the morning and at night. (I know meal worms aren’t nutrient dense, I just ordered more bugs from Josh’s Frogs). We gutload our feeders with apples, spinach, carrots, and a vitamin mix.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use zoomed calcium without d3 every feeding and zoo med reptivite every other week. Just ordered new supplements from Josh’s Frogs though.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? So we mist by hand for 2 minutes in the morning and at night every day. Saw him drinking this morning.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? He has not had a “normal looking” poop since we brought him home. I’m honestly not sure if he was pooping normally at the store either. It is brown/black and runny with a little bit of white, but it isn’t solid like it should be. He has not been tested for parasites but we are going tomorrow.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. He was bought from a chain store and is 5 months old

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? He has the medium reptibreeze cage currently until we get the 2’ x 2’ x 4’ cage from Zen Habitats that we ordered. It has ventilation and glass
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I use the Reptisun T8 HO 10.0 bulb. That runs from 7:00-6:30/7:00 every day.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? During the day the overall temp is about 72.5 degrees Fahrenheit. At night it’s down to 60-62 degrees. In his basking spot it is 85.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? The humidity is 45-50% in the daytime and 80-90% at night. We have a fogger that runs at night and we mist for 2 minutes before he wakes up and 2 minutes when he falls asleep.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Pothos and fake plants. Once our glass cage arrived we’re going to do a mix of more live plants
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? He is on a table in our living room but it’s just the two of us, very low traffic. His cage is about three feet off the ground and about halfway up the wall. We just bought a 2’ x 2’ x 4’ glass enclosure (with ventilation) and we’re waiting for that to arrive.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Massachusetts

 

[Beman]

Hi there I can go through your husbandry. But can you please post pics so I can see specific distances for your light fixtures on top... T8 have a much lower output distance so if this is too far away this baby is not getting any UVB.

Are you using a CHI heat fixture?

 

[rosefountain]

Yes I can! Right now his top branches are about 8-9 inches from the light.

And yes we have a heat fixture on the top, it’s 100 watts.

 

[rosefountain]

Yes I can! Right now his top branches are about 8-9 inches from the light.

And yes we have a heat fixture on the top, it’s 100 watts.

This is a makeshift set up with the 30” light until our bigger cage arrives. We had a zilla one the first day and realized it was garbage.

 

[Beman]

First off welcome to the forum. See my feedback in red bold. Make sure the vet has experience with reptiles at the very least. Do not let them give vitamin shots if they suggest it. Take in a fresh fecal sample to be run for parasites.

• Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, 4-5 months, 4 days in our care.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Almost never, only twice. To bring him home and to take him to the store again to have someone check his eye out. We got him 4 days ago. The store will be useless in providing accurate help. Depending on the chain store you got him from they could have been using Calcium with D3. I would call to find out exactly what supplements they had been using for his feeders. If it is a multivitamin with D3 and A or calcium with D3. He could be dealing with an overdose of fat soluble vitamins. Also chain stores never use the correct UVB for them. Most babies end up with compromised health and the start of MBD that have spent time stuck in a chain store.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? We have been putting 5 dusted crickets, 2 super worms, and 2 meal worms in the morning and at night. (I know meal worms aren’t nutrient dense, I just ordered more bugs from Josh’s Frogs). We gutload our feeders with apples, spinach, carrots, and a vitamin mix. Drop the spinach it is calcium binding do not add vitamin mix. See gutload image for better options. At this age a healthy cham would be able to take down 2 dozen feeders a day.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I use zoomed calcium without d3 every feeding and zoo med reptivite every other week. Just ordered new supplements from Josh’s Frogs though. Which ones did you order? You want plain calcium without D3 at all feedings and then a multivitamin that has D3 and A in it to use 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? So we mist by hand for 2 minutes in the morning and at night every day. Saw him drinking this morning. You may need to add a dripper
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? He has not had a “normal looking” poop since we brought him home. I’m honestly not sure if he was pooping normally at the store either. It is brown/black and runny with a little bit of white, but it isn’t solid like it should be. He has not been tested for parasites but we are going tomorrow. Fecal test is in order. But other things can cause this.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. He was bought from a chain store and is 5 months old

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? He has the medium reptibreeze cage currently until we get the 2’ x 2’ x 4’ cage from Zen Habitats that we ordered. It has ventilation and glass... Do not move him into a new cage until you get the fecal results back and they are clear of parasites.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? I use the Reptisun T8 HO 10.0 bulb. That runs from 7:00-6:30/7:00 every day. Ok with this fixture and bulb stregth. You want it lifted no more than 2 inches off the top if he is screen climbing. THen you need horizontal vines 5-6 inches below it. This will put him in a 3 UVI level at the vine and max 6 UVI on the screen. Right now he is not getting any UVB with the distance it is at.
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? During the day the overall temp is about 72.5 degrees Fahrenheit. At night it’s down to 60-62 degrees. In his basking spot it is 85. Take the CHI back get a standard 60-75 watt incandescent bulb. Not a focused heat bulb though. Lift this a bit off the cage top (a few inches) so he does not get a thermal burn if he screen climbs. Basking at branch below it should be 80-85 range. CHI's can cause thermal burns very easily if not used in a specific way. Also they do not produce light so chams do not know to bask under them. THey look for the light as it means heat. Your other temps are fine. I would not let night time drop below 60 while his health is compromised.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? The humidity is 45-50% in the daytime and 80-90% at night. We have a fogger that runs at night and we mist for 2 minutes before he wakes up and 2 minutes when he falls asleep. So he will need a misting during the day. This is how they are able to clean their eyes. Do not be afraid of misting daytime as long as you have airflow there is no respiratory infection risk with misting. Fogging at night only is perfect.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Pothos and fake plants. Once our glass cage arrived we’re going to do a mix of more live plants.. You want to pull out all of the fake plants and attach to the outside of the cage. The moss vines have to go they are an impaction risk. Veileds eat the moss off of them. They also do not fully dry out and hold bacteria and moisture. Flukers makes the only fake vines that I would use with a cham. You can use floral wire to attach them to the screen. All sharps from wire to the outside of the cage though. Pull out all the bark on the bottom and go bare bottom only. The bark is going to grow bacteria and start to stink. Also if he eats it then you have an impaction risk.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? He is on a table in our living room but it’s just the two of us, very low traffic. His cage is about three feet off the ground and about halfway up the wall. We just bought a 2’ x 2’ x 4’ glass enclosure (with ventilation) and we’re waiting for that to arrive. Get a clean fecal first before you move him over.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Massachusetts

Read through this for total set up https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

Call petstore find out what supplement was actually being used for him. See if they know how long they had him there as well. Change out the heat source asap. Correct the distance for the T8. These are the two most important changes that should be done now. Then start clearing the bark and replace the moss vines. Do not put any more live plants in until you get the fecal results. If he is positive for parasites then you cross contaminated the new plants. Careful right now with cleaning as well. Not all parasites are the same for cleaning and some are harder than others to deal with.

Let me know what questions you have.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello there! I just wanted to jump in and say welcome! You are in excellent hands with @Beman