My chameleons have CANV, please help I don't know what to do anymore

starryskiezz

starryskiezz

Member
A vet visit and $600 later, I have lost 2/4 veiled chameleons to CANV. My Jackson's Cham and translucent veiled baby are also infected, and I'm scared my beardie will catch it. I'm using chlorhexene wash twice a day and hibitane ointment but I am going to try and get an oral anti fungal tomorrow.

I'm so exhausted and upset. I want to make a post to describe all the symptoms and everything, including a necropsy of my best friend Bames who passed first and photos of the fungus on the chams and with a USB microscope.

But right now I need advice. My babies are all infected and I don't know what the hell to do because I've been trying SO hard. Please please please help. I feel absolutely traumatized as I keep seeing online that it is a death sentence.

Also note that I'm too exhausted to fill out the asking for help form. I need to sleep. I can't handle losing my babies. Please tell me what your experiences are and what to do.
 
Your oral anti-fungal will have to be either Voriconazole or a combo of two others. Neither show huge promise for long term life. (I am not going to give false hope here) You should be cleaning the infected areas with povidone iodine once or twice daily. Twice seems better in your case since it is spreading so badly. Have you set up a quarantine cage for everyone infected?Have you moved your beardie away and out of the room of your chameleons? Are you cleaning your hands inbetween EACH reptile? including feedings, and touching the cages even between the infected two? You need to wash your hand with the chlorohexedine solution.
 
@Andee I will call my vet to ask for a prescription for that tomorrow. Before the vet visit I was using povidone iodine to clean them twice daily, but Dr. Jackson gave me chlorhexedine to use instead prior to applying hibitane. Unfortunately he only gave me 30mL chlorhexedine so only enough for the chams. However, I have been cleaning my hands CONSTANTLY between chamsand even will sometimes wear gloves. I also sanitized EVERYTHING with bleach. I have my chams in their original flexeriums as I don't want to cause them more stress, but I WILL move my beardie far away. I live in a bachelor suite with one room so it's difficult to move him very far.
 
@Andee is it safe to also clean with povidone iodine in addition to the chlorhexedine, or could this be dangerous to renal function if any of the Betadine is absorbed by the skin? How is CANV acquired in chameleons, as I can find very little info online. Have you heard of using hibitane to treat chams? Also thank you for your honesty- I suspected as much and this is my worst nightmare. These little guys mean everything to me so seeing them like this KILLS me.
 
Pick up some cheap non-sterile gloves at home-depot, use them ALL them time when handling infected animals or touching cages, throw them out when switching. How often do you use the plain chlorohexadine and how often do you use the hibitane? Hibitane has a small amount of chlorohexadine in it already. So using to much of the regular stuff could be dangerous. My mother is a nurse and she says it's dangerous in too large amounts for people as well. Though I don't know if yours is diluted at all? I would not use the betadine to clean with. You should be able to buy chlorohexadine for yourself. Give me a sec to figure that out <3

CANV is caused by stress and dirty conditions. Usually it happens from crowding and then once one reptile has it, it is extremely easy to pass inbetween others. Have you recently gotten a chameleon from a breeder or store? Did any of your new chams have any lesions?
 
I will grab the gloves tomorrow. Yes, I have been diluting the chlorhexedine with water. I will take a Q-tip, soak it in water, then apply 1/2 drops of chlorhexedine. Dr. Jackson told me to use both twice a day... wash with chlorhexedine, then let dry and apply hibitane. Thank you so much <3

I recently got my baby Jackson's from Petland, though she is the least affected. I am also wondering if systemic CANV can cause RIs, as I DID notice after I bought her (before I discovered the tiny CANV lesions with my USB microscope) that she had a lot of mucus- which is being treated with 0.02mL Baytril once a day. I was already going to call Petland to lose it on them for selling me a cham with a respiratory infection (they need to take better care of their reptiles if so)- but I have wondered if she had CANV first, so I also plan to lose it on them for potentially killing my reptiles.
 
@Andee also, in my immunology lab we use 70% ethanol to clean our biosafety cabinets- do you know if this would be effective as an everyday disinfectant for CANV? If so, I would like to constantly be spraying medication bottles, countertops, etc.
 
https://www.amazon.com/Bimeda-Inc-Chlorhexidine-Solution-gallon/dp/B00061MU9W

There that should get you plenty of chlorohexadine. Umm as far as ethanol... it should work technically... though I am not sure... I have never messed with ethanol myself, and I am not sure how chameleons will react to it.... also if it comes to needing seperate oral syringes those are also super cheap on ebay or amazon as well. I buy mine from there all the time because we go through them like crazy at my house.

What I am worried about with the ethanol is it wouldn't be a good enough cleanser? I know certain fungi are really hard to clean up after. It's why I honestly don't recommend using bleach with most fungi and things like coccidia, because it won't destroy them well enough.

@kinyonga might know, she tends to find weird articles that help more than we ever realize <3 plus she is a wealth of knowledge herself.

As far as your jacksons, the RI could have actually caused the CANV to happen or vice versa, honestly both can be caused by servere stress... Just so you know, I am really really sorry for you to be going through this. It sucks so bad, because this is probably one of the worst diagnosis to get in a reptile world, not only because it's such a poor prognosis but is also so easily transferable. I am honestly keeping my fingers crossed for the best possible outcome, and definitely keeping my eyes and ears open.
 
@Andee you are such a magical person. I am SO grateful for all your advice. I was actually initially thinking of tagging you and @kinyonga because of how much I see you two helping others and spreading knowledge on the forums.

I'm also worried about ethanol not being good enough. Tomorrow I will make a solution of borax and vinegar, as I have heard that is best. I am SO tired.
 
Starryskiezz asked..."How is CANV acquired in chameleons, as I can find very little info online"...my vet (Dr. Jean A Pare) was the one who wrote a lot of the papers on CANV and did a lot of the studies too. It was 2 of my chameleons that had the CANV that started him on the study of the whole fungal group.

Did someone do the tests to determine that's what it is?

With my chameleons (only 2 had it) my vet treated it with itraconozole. One survived and continued to live for years after and an autopsy after he died showed no trace of it. The second one had other health issues as well and didn't make it. Originally the fungus went through several possible names before it was determined that it was a new fungus and was named a cutaneous anamorphic of nannizziopsis vriesii or CANV. It was funny because at first they thought it was ring worm!

The fungus called yellow fungus in beardies is different than the CANV fungus and I don't know if it's treatment is as successful. When you research it you will find it under CANV but it has since been put under a different name.

Here's some information that might help you...I'm trying to find the full versions but I haven't found them all yet tonight...
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20095688?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13693780500165461
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20370369
https://hubpages.com/animals/Yellow-Flesh-Eating-Fungus-Nannizziopsiosis-in-Bearded-Dragons


The whole complex...
https://www.uamh.ca/Research.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3811641/#!po=44.7368
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3811641/
http://jcm.asm.org/content/51/10/3338.full
 
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Yes I did read it in that article when I looked up what caused it, i am going to read through the articles you posted while I sit in bed.
 
Ah so the more common ones bearded dragons get are a different genus of the CANV fungus. Though it looks like this species of yellow fungus is just as much of an issue as the necrotic one. The flesh eating one is likely the one that is more complicated to treat because it sounds like it moves faster. Did you guys ever find out how CANV is contracted?

Idk if I missed it in the articles? Could have, a bit tired.
 
@kinyonga I am on my phone so this reply will not be crazy long like I want it to be, but THANK YOU! I didn't have it cultured because I can't afford it at this point, as culturing costs $60 at my vet and I have spent at least $600/700 on vet bills, medications, new things for the enclosure due to having to throw so much out and disinfect, etc. I'm thinking of making a GoFundMe as I actually can't even afford to pay my rent at this point. I never expected this to happen and I'm honestly just an immunology student who loves chams and was so happy taking care of my babies. I'm so so upset, but SO grateful for you and @Andee. I'm also very grateful that you link scientific journal articles, as that makes my science-oriented brain happy.

Regarding what @Andee said about it being caused by stress... I can't back this up right now but I read online that 26/28% or something have the fungus as part of their normal flora. I need to do further research on this. Therefore, if a reptile is under stress this might cause a shift in the normal flora resulting in disease (which is documented in humans and termed a "microbiotia shift disease"). Thus any stressors such as environmental stress, antibiotic use, or immunocompromisation could maybe result in an overgrowth of CANV. Additionally, I have also read that the fungus is ubiquitous, so maybe it is acquired if the immune system is compromised. It also makes sense that when acquired it spreads more easily- if CANV needs to infect a host with a weakened immune system/body first, often pathogens will adapt to that host and become more easily transmissible to others of that species as they adapt.
 
@kinyonga my professor in my lab has a masters in medical mycology. I have been very sick and haven't been in to my lab in a bit, but I am going to text him and ask if he can help me culture the fungus and give me insight.
 
I'm back...
How did the fungus present itself?

Just to let you know...I had beardies and numerous other lizards including lots of chameleons, and tortoises when the chameleons had the CANV. The beardies were in the same room as the parsonii. Not one of them got it.

The two that had it were newly imported so they were definitely stressed....but both had it already when they came into my care.
I'm still not sure that this is the cause of it though. If you read the one study that Dr. Pare did, he actually infected them with it by breaching the cutaneous integrity...and it seemed it could be transmitted by other means such as formites as well. The Parsons chameleon had an almost healed abrasion on its knee when I got it and it was in that area that the fungus started. The other chameleon had the lesions on its foot and other places already when I got it.

In this site there is an article...survey for the CANV on the skin of healthy captive squamate reptiles...read the first paragraph on page 14..."how animals come into contact with the CANV, and other factors that lead to infection by the fungus are not understood"....
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?s...ii+calyptratus+1997&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
There are lots more articles in that site too.

More to follow...
 
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I am so glad I tagged you Kinyonga, it's wonderful to know you have gone through (hope that doesn't sound insensitive) just so you can pass your knowledge. I am going to go through the articles again today since I am a bit more away right now. Hopefully we can help @starryskiezz remaining chams and get to the bottom of this. Hopefully treatment will help <3
 
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