My chameleons have CANV, please help I don't know what to do anymore

[Extensionofgreen]

I'd like to see some photos. I recently has irregular spots and lesions appear on some of my animals, which was suspiciously like fungus, even have yellow pigmented areas and irregular brown borders. Biopsies were done and 2 pathologist reviewed the samples and no fungal activity or organisms could be seen in culture or microscopic examination. The areas cleared up on their own over time and were surmised to be a reaction to plant saps they encountered while running of skin during shedding. The new skin is softer and more susceptible to irritation and both instances appeared during and after recent shedding events. The trauma caused by the sutures was far more of a concern than what both the vet and myself were convinced was fungal infection from physical examination.

 

[kinyonga]

There have been several chameleon threads on the forum with photos of the lesions. They might turn up in a search.

 

[kinyonga]

And more info...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=hhO4WAZcVLEC&pg=PA533&lpg=PA533&dq=canv+parsons+chameleon&source=bl&ots=XgoiI8mcly&sig=yLFFIKZAwgfGhBpIJn3QGteXlVE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq9vLx6v3TAhUI6IMKHdtPBS4Q6AEISTAH#v=onepage&q=canv parsons chameleon&f=false

There's a photo in this one...see diagnostic testing too...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=2PoxAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA662&lpg=PA662&dq=canv+parsons+chameleon&source=bl&ots=dL6lQpX_F3&sig=aWWAMO-MPfOa9uWggDZe4LYHOgI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKxPSi7P3TAhUs5IMKHV04BT84ChDoAQgiMAM#v=onepage&q=canv parsons chameleon&f=false

 

[Extensionofgreen]

There have been several chameleon threads on the forum with photos of the lesions. They might turn up in a search.

I mean photos of this poster's affected animals. Doing a quick search under her profile for recent activity, shows only this thread. If there is a thread I've missed ( I am not able to scan pages of posts currently ), I'd be grateful for the link.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Vionex

Good stuff. Might be something you should look into. Run it by your fungus professor for effectiveness. See what he says. I've used it but I'll let you check with him for his professional thoughts

 

[starryskiezz]

@kinyonga I discovered the source- looking at old photos I realize my female veiled I bought from Petland had it, but I initially thought the fungus was just her normal colouration, as I have never seen CANV before. I should have been more vigilant in quarantining. Anyways, it initially presented itself as yellowish dermatomycoses present moving outwards from a single area on my female veiled, Rose. Then, the spots began to spread. I also noticed black dots on her that upon closer look with my microscope (after the vet diagnosed yellow fungus) were tiny necrotic patches with holes where the keratin had been eaten away. Initially, the infection seemed to be only localized in patches on the skin- however, in all cases, the fungus has penetrated deeper causing systemic infection and bruising over the body. The chameleons first are less hungry, then lethargic, then rapidly deteriorate to having sunken in eyes and large bruised and necrotic patches. They go downhill VERY fast, and then it's too late. I lost another chameleon this morning, and now have one left. I also have made a GoFundMe to pay all expenses of this, but what I have gone through is there so you can see a couple photos for now. If I can raise enough I also plan to culture the fungus and determine its drug sensitivities so that no one else has to blindly go through this:

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The most frustrating thing though, is that no local vets have Keto-, Vori-, or Itraconazole. So for now, I am treating orally with 10mg/mL fluconazole once daily and Monistat (1% miconazole) and misting multiple times a day plus increasing temps. I had to order Itraconazole from a drug compounding company in Ontario, which won't be here until a few days from now. Only Lilac is surviving (Bames, Rose, and Poke have passed away), and I think a few days may be too long if the fluconazole is ineffective- I have seen conflicting reports on whether fluconazole is actually effective against CANV. The vet I saw is very experienced and has worked with reptiles for years, but even he admitted that he underestimated the infection.

I'm exhausted. I learned a big lesson about proper quarantining, but still... this is just my luck. Sigh. I just hope Lilac pulls through. I feel thoroughly traumatized after losing 3/4 of my chameleons in two weeks.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Itraconazole does work. I used it a long time back with some Uromastyx that had it.

I did a few things all at once.

-Made sure the animals had a proper temperature gradient.

-Kept them on newspaper.

-Fed them every other day and risked OD'ing them on Herptivite (Nutrition is key, and it's a shot in the dark sometimes)

- Gave them the Itraconazole orally

- soaked them twice a week in a chlorohexedine solution.

- Used a flamethrower on anything they came into contact with.

- Used Vionex for cleaning cages and stuff.


I was lucky. I knew what yellow patches of dried skin was when i saw it. I wasn't lucky in that the animals came into the shop when I was away for a week. The trio survived but they were considered radioactive so an employee took all three home. They were kept on the treatment for over six months. This is the first time I've heard of anybody having it in a long long time to be honest.

Sorry you lost your critters. Doing a sensitivity on the fungus would be useful to others.

 

[kinyonga]

CANV does move fast and goes deep into the chameleons including into the organs which is why it has to be treated with an antifungal oral medication.

In my chameleons, it presented differently than the yellow skin. It started around a grey mark that looked like an injured area on the knee that was healing. The lesions were like pox almost. Then they started appearing on all areas of the body...just small marks like pox. I think we got it so quickly that it didn't progress into big lesions.

I've never seen it appear as yellow gungus in any of the chameleons on this forum that have turned out to have it. I've been under the impression that it's supposed to be species specific....a slightly different form in different species. We had all handled the chameleons with bare hands and apparently didn't get anything from them although I think there is one form of it that people can get.

A possible "side effect" of the itraconozole may be anemia and an enlarged liver but it could/should be temporary si CE neither showed up in the autopsy years later.

I hope you can save your chameleon.

 

[Andee]

I am so sorry sweetie for all you are going through right now. I am very appreciative of your desire to help for future even if your chameleons don't make it. Just keep doing your best I will keep hoping your little one pulls through

 

[kinyonga]

So sorry you lost another chameleon...I forgot to say that in my last post. I hope the last one makes it.

 

[kinyonga]

How's it going with Lilac?

 

[starryskiezz]

Hi friends @Andee @kinyonga. Unfortunately my babies all passed. My vet got the Itraconazole in a day after they all died. I am going to start typing up a thread about EVERYTHING I experienced, and I will make sure to tag you.

I actually beat you to reading that study! Haha thank you so so much you two. I am endlessly grateful for you.

 

[starryskiezz]

ALSO, I did necropsies on all of them and dropped off fungal samples for culturing and PCR at my vet. I'm really worried though, as he has not contacted me yet and I dropped them off Monday and was promised a call Thurs/Friday. I'm gonna e-mail him and also forward him some journal articles so that this can be better addressed in the future.

 

[kinyonga]

So very sorry that you lost all your chameleon's. I don't know how I only lost two back when mine had it. Maybe my quarantining and hand washing and all paid off. I was a fanatic about all of that. I'm sure people thought I was crazy at times. I hope you will get more chameleons in the future and have good luck with them.

 

[Andee]

Yes I hope this hasn't scared you off chameleons forever. I am sad it ended this way but it's definitely taught all of us a lesson likely. And I hope the culture comes through with some much needed info.

 

[starryskiezz]

@Andee @kinyonga oh god it's taught me so many lessons I've learned a lot about signs of sick chams, what to do, how important quarantining the heck out of new reptiles is, and how much I really love chams. It hasn't put me off chams at all, but now I'm going to forever be paranoid. The whole experience has been HORRIFIC, but I love these critters too much to not own them still. I just hope my experience can educate me more and others, because well... fuck CANV. That's all. I'm just glad I can come to the forums to ask for help. I'm SO grateful.

 

[kinyonga]

This forum has lots of good information and lots of people who know about chameleons!
It's a good thing!

 

[starryskiezz]

@OldChamKeeper thank you SO much for sharing! I am getting my vet to culture and do sensitivity testing already... I'm just waiting for him to contact me with results. I'm going to post photos on here. I took tons using a USB microscope. I'm also ordering a large container of chlorhexidine for future use, as my vet only gave me 30mL. Does Vionex kill spores? I want to sanitize my whole apartment, including the carpet. I was also thinking of ordering F10. I want to post a thread on yellow fungus sharing photos and my experience. If you'd like, could you maybe type up your story and I can include it in my post?

Also @kinyonga for my chams, the fungus also showed up kind of like pox. It appeared in little black pinprick bruises and tiny yellow dots, so initially I had no idea what the hell it was. And don't worry- yellow fungus only infects people who are immunocompromised, such as HIV patients, organ transplant patients, or people with genetic conditions that impair their immune function.

 

[kinyonga]

I thought they had determined that yellow fungus was species specific now and any form that infects reptiles won't infect humans??!!

I guess if yours started a bit like pox that my vet and I caught it early...before it got to the type of leions that look like yellow fungus.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

Does Vionex kill spores? I want to sanitize my whole apartment, including the carpet. I was also thinking of ordering F10. I want to post a thread on yellow fungus sharing photos and my experience. If you'd like, could you maybe type up your story and I can include it in my post?

I have no idea if it does, nothing scientific anyway. I'd think a good steam cleaning with a fungicide would do it. There is a type used with carpets but I cant think of it but it's heavy duty unlike the stuff made for our pets.

I don't have an issue with you using anything I've shared. If I did I wouldn't share it in the first place but thanks for asking. I didn't mention it earlier since you were still going thru what you were with your pets but those three Uromastyx survived. One lost a tail and it never grew back but they lived long enough to reproduce and for years after. The tail had been sent to a lab which confirmed it was the frigging fungus of the apocalypse I was told. The best guess everyone had was this:

1 - Infection was fought daily from the inside (Meds)
2 - Infection was fought daily from the outside (soakings)
3- Infection was contained and limited in being able to re-infect the animals in the cage (Newspaper bedding, no other items but flat rock) so in a cham cage... no plants and the perches should be something like plastic coat hangers that can be easily removed and wiped down daily I would guess.
4 - The keepers knew the optimum temps and diet and nuked them with extra supplementation.
5 - Luck. No matter how you cut it there was some of that ranging from how quick we noticed it to having experienced keepers around who knew how to rehab animals, and more.[/user]