My Chameleon Hind Legs Look a bit chunky.

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
I have an 8 month Male Veiled Chameleon. I feed him every other day 8 crickets, 10 mealworms, 1 wax worm, 1 horn worm, and 5 super worms. I dust crickets and mealworms every feeding with repticalcium without D3. MULTIVITAMINS twice a month with d3. He has dripper, I mist him 2-6 times a day. Temp at basking spot is 87 degrees Fahrenheit... with bottom of cage being 65 degrees f. I have a 18x18x36 screen cage (will upgrade to bigger one soon).
I have 4 real plants being a Pothos, Ficus Benjamin’s, Bromeliad and Japanese aralia.

So recently, I was misting him one morning, and he just jumped off the top of his cage, he landed on a plant so i don’t think he got hurt, but he decided to chill in the bottom for like 3 days, climbing up just occasionally. He’s back to normal now, I do see him with his mouth open a lot now. He just to be a chill Chameleon, now he’s always like panicked out. I started noticing that his back legs seem fatter than his front legs, is this to concern? Is his mouth open a problem? His poop seems ok always been same, urine never been completely white, always some orange. I do see him drinking from the dripper, I do see him drinking from the leafs. I use the the dual lamp that came with my zoo med cage. He gets lift from 6 am to 6 pm. Will post pics later
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
Here are my pics, it’s nightime and he’s crashed out
 

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CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:
  1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
  2. Photos can be very helpful.
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
  • Your Chameleon - 8 month Veiled Chameleon. I bought him from Petco at 4 months old.
  • Handling - used to handle everyday before incident, now I don't handle him at all.
  • Feeding -
    I feed him every other day 8 crickets, 10 mealworms, 1 wax worm, 1 horn worm, and 5 super worms. I dust crickets and mealworms every feeding with repticalcium without D3. MULTIVITAMINS twice a month with d3.
  • Supplements -
  • Watering -
    He has dripper, I mist him 2-6 times a day. I go tru 2 spray bottles every session, or 20 fl ounces if I use big mister. I do see him using dripper to drink and drinks from leaves.
  • Fecal Description - always same not to moist, not to dry poop, with never fully white urine, like ill say 1/2 white/orange to 3/4 more white than orange. never been tested for parasites.
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - screen cage 18x18x36 (will upgrade to bigger one soon)
  • Lighting - the ones that came with zoo med kit, the dual ceramic lighting. Repti sun 13 watt 10.0 UVB, and a blue heat bulb
  • Temperature - basking varies from 85 to 90, cool zone is 72.
  • Humidity - I don't measure.(Buying a humidity reader soon) I mist a lot
  • Placement - in the corner of a room, highly traffic
  • Location - Arizona desert
Current Problem -about a week ago, I mist him I the morning, he started running and eventually jumped off to the bottom of his cage. he stayed there for like 3 days only climbing upocasionally. he has stopped now, but I noticed that hes not the same, hes always with his mouth open and its not as "friendly" as he used to. hes back to normal as in he spends his days up and not down. I also noticed like some bumps or just fat back legs, almost to where his foot starts.
 
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CamoChameleonsHuman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Please see my notes in red and attached care sheets
  • Your Chameleon - 8 month Veiled Chameleon. I bought him from Petco at 4 months old.
  • Handling - used to handle everyday before incident, now I don't handle him at all.
  • Feeding -
    I feed him every other day 8 crickets, 10 mealworms, 1 wax worm, 1 horn worm, and 5 super worms. I dust crickets and mealworms every feeding with repticalcium without D3. MULTIVITAMINS twice a month with d3. Cut out the mealworms. They can cause impaction do to the high level of ciatin in their exoskeleton. Wax worms and superworms should be occasional treats only. What are you gutloading your feeders with?
  • Supplements - what brand of calcium stated above? What brand of multivitamin with D3 stated above?
  • Watering -
    He has dripper, I mist him 2-6 times a day. I go tru 2 spray bottles every session, or 20 fl ounces if I use big mister. I do see him using dripper to drink and drinks from leaves. I'd think about investing in a good misting system. This way you don't forget sometime and do to your location being in Arizona.
  • Fecal Description - always same not to moist, not to dry poop, with never fully white urine, like ill say 1/2 white/orange to 3/4 more white than orange. never been tested for parasites. We're always aiming for pure white urates but a little orange or a little yellow is fine. How often is he using the bathroom?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - screen cage 18x18x36 (will upgrade to bigger one soon) This is a must! Your boy is full grown and needs the space.
  • Lighting - the ones that came with zoo med kit, the dual ceramic lighting. Repti sun 13 watt 10.0 UVB, and a blue heat bulb these are both insufficient. The blue bulbs tend to bust within 24hrs and the UVB coil bulbs give almost no UVB output past 3inches in that localized spot. Invest in a T5HO linear UVB hood with a 5.0 bulb. You can also take him outside for short periods of time on not too hot days there in Arizona.
  • Temperature - basking varies from 85 to 90, cool zone is 72. How are you measuring this?
  • Humidity - I don't measure.(Buying a humidity reader soon) I mist a lot this is another must especially living in Arizona. Veilds need about 40% humidity during the day and up to 80%at night. This will be hard for you living in Arizona without a humidifier. I'd suggest a cool mist ultrasonic humidifier.
  • Placement - in the corner of a room, highly traffic do you find the traffic stressed him out?
  • Location - Arizona desert
Current Problem -about a week ago, I mist him I the morning, he started running and eventually jumped off to the bottom of his cage. he stayed there for like 3 days only climbing upocasionally. he has stopped now, but I noticed that hes not the same, hes always with his mouth open and its not as "friendly" as he used to. hes back to normal as in he spends his days up and not down. I also noticed like some bumps or just fat back legs, almost to where his foot starts.
As stated previously we will need more pics in the AM when he wakes up and is horizontal not vertical. The angle is not ideal for a determination of anything.
 

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Thatwizard420

Avid Member
I mist him this morning and he ran to the bottom of his cage, is hiding there between some plants
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
^ I agree with everything that @CamoChameleonsHuman has advised. I just want to touch on the amount of feeders topic.
I feed him every other day 8 crickets, 10 mealworms, 1 wax worm, 1 horn worm, and 5 super worms.

For him to be an 8 month old Veiled and to be getting 25 feeders every other day is a recipe for an overweight Chameleon. Ideally you want to be feeding the equivlant of about 7 large feeders every other day. What you will want to do is over the next 4 weeks start cutting him back each week by 5, 5, 5, then 3 so you are then at 7. You can take out the mealworms all together they have a very low nutritional value and can cause impaction, Superworms should be about 20% of the total amount of feeders because they do not gutload well. The Chameleon Food graphic will give you other great feeder options as well. Your still aiming for variety with the 7 or so feeders.
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
^ I agree with everything that @CamoChameleonsHuman has advised. I just want to touch on the amount of feeders topic.


For him to be an 8 month old Veiled and to be getting 25 feeders every other day is a recipe for an overweight Chameleon. Ideally you want to be feeding the equivlant of about 7 large feeders every other day. What you will want to do is over the next 4 weeks start cutting him back each week by 5, 5, 5, then 3 so you are then at 7. You can take out the mealworms all together they have a very low nutritional value and can cause impaction, Superworms should be about 20% of the total amount of feeders because they do not gutload well. The Chameleon Food graphic will give you other great feeder options as well. Your still aiming for variety with the 7 or so feeders.
Thanks for advice, will definitely cut back on the grub. Any ideas why his “ankles” look fat and mouth open a lot?
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks for advice, will definitely cut back on the grub. Any ideas why his “ankles” look fat and mouth open a lot?
@CamoChameleonsHuman went through your help sheet quite thoroughly and it looks like he did ask you additional questions on what you had put down. I do not see where you answered these.

They do have strong back "ankles" naturally. But without better images we would not be able to tell if that is normal or not.

Your lighting and cage size really need to be corrected like asap. MBD is a huge risk when using compact uvb bulbs. This makes their bones even more easily breakable due to the lack of UVB conversion from light in order to make Calcium. Essentially the calcium is sucked out of their bones to try to compensate. So a fall that a healthy cham will bounce back from can have a more profound effect on a cham that has not had the proper lighting.

I believe the gaping is more then likely an issue of the fall since this just started after it happened....

However depending on how you are measuring this you may not be getting accurate readings on temperature and it could be too hot. Or he is regulating his temp. Consistent gaping is not something we want to see though. It indicates that something is wrong.

There is always the potential for an RI as well. Granted humidity is more then likely far below what a Veiled needs living in AZ. But I notice you have a substrate in the bottom of your cage. How clean is this. Is it bio active? If it is not bio active this should be removed completely. Otherwise you are just creating an area for bacteria to grow. Then he walks or hides down there actively sitting in it.

Taking him to an experienced reptile vet for an xray will tell you if he hurt himself. Although with broken bones there is very little they can do.

It is important to start correcting husbandry issues.
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
@CamoChameleonsHuman went through your help sheet quite thoroughly and it looks like he did ask you additional questions on what you had put down. I do not see where you answered these.

They do have strong back "ankles" naturally. But without better images we would not be able to tell if that is normal or not.

Your lighting and cage size really need to be corrected like asap. MBD is a huge risk when using compact uvb bulbs. This makes their bones even more easily breakable due to the lack of UVB conversion from light in order to make Calcium. Essentially the calcium is sucked out of their bones to try to compensate. So a fall that a healthy cham will bounce back from can have a more profound effect on a cham that has not had the proper lighting.

I believe the gaping is more then likely an issue of the fall since this just started after it happened....

However depending on how you are measuring this you may not be getting accurate readings on temperature and it could be too hot. Or he is regulating his temp. Consistent gaping is not something we want to see though. It indicates that something is wrong.

There is always the potential for an RI as well. Granted humidity is more then likely far below what a Veiled needs living in AZ. But I notice you have a substrate in the bottom of your cage. How clean is this. Is it bio active? If it is not bio active this should be removed completely. Otherwise you are just creating an area for bacteria to grow. Then he walks or hides down there actively sitting in it.

Taking him to an experienced reptile vet for an xray will tell you if he hurt himself. Although with broken bones there is very little they can do.

It is important to start correcting husbandry issues.


I have Microfauna in there in the form of isopods... A lot of them.... it has a lot of dead leaves, I have gone tru it, didn’t notice anything sketchy... Lighting will be fixed today as when I’m out of work will go buy what I need... I will post better pics when I’m home from work and will answer the questions with a lil bit more detail once I’m on an actual PC
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have Microfauna in there in the form of isopods... A lot of them.... it has a lot of dead leaves, I have gone tru it, didn’t notice anything sketchy... Lighting will be fixed today as when I’m out of work will go buy what I need... I will post better pics when I’m home from work and will answer the questions with a lil bit more detail once I’m on an actual PC
Perfect if you can give more info on the isopods you are using we can tag in bioactive members that can give you feedback and assistance there as well. :)
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
I get them from
Perfect if you can give more info on the isopods you are using we can tag in bioactive members that can give you feedback and assistance there as well. :)
I get them from work, I Work at a plant Nursery and they’re everywhere there’s mud or humidity... I’m at work atm, will post some pics. They’re under the pots.
 

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Thatwizard420

Avid Member
Please see my notes in red and attached care sheets
  • Your Chameleon - 8 month Veiled Chameleon. I bought him from Petco at 4 months old.
  • Handling - used to handle everyday before incident, now I don't handle him at all.
  • Feeding -
    I feed him every other day 8 crickets, 10 mealworms, 1 wax worm, 1 horn worm, and 5 super worms. I dust crickets and mealworms every feeding with repticalcium without D3. MULTIVITAMINS twice a month with d3. Cut out the mealworms. They can cause impaction do to the high level of ciatin in their exoskeleton. Wax worms and superworms should be occasional treats only. What are you gutloading your feeders with?
  • Supplements - what brand of calcium stated above? What brand of multivitamin with D3 stated above?
  • Watering -
    He has dripper, I mist him 2-6 times a day. I go tru 2 spray bottles every session, or 20 fl ounces if I use big mister. I do see him using dripper to drink and drinks from leaves. I'd think about investing in a good misting system. This way you don't forget sometime and do to your location being in Arizona.
  • Fecal Description - always same not to moist, not to dry poop, with never fully white urine, like ill say 1/2 white/orange to 3/4 more white than orange. never been tested for parasites. We're always aiming for pure white urates but a little orange or a little yellow is fine. How often is he using the bathroom?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - screen cage 18x18x36 (will upgrade to bigger one soon) This is a must! Your boy is full grown and needs the space.
  • Lighting - the ones that came with zoo med kit, the dual ceramic lighting. Repti sun 13 watt 10.0 UVB, and a blue heat bulb these are both insufficient. The blue bulbs tend to bust within 24hrs and the UVB coil bulbs give almost no UVB output past 3inches in that localized spot. Invest in a T5HO linear UVB hood with a 5.0 bulb. You can also take him outside for short periods of time on not too hot days there in Arizona.
  • Temperature - basking varies from 85 to 90, cool zone is 72. How are you measuring this?
  • Humidity - I don't measure.(Buying a humidity reader soon) I mist a lot this is another must especially living in Arizona. Veilds need about 40% humidity during the day and up to 80%at night. This will be hard for you living in Arizona without a humidifier. I'd suggest a cool mist ultrasonic humidifier.
  • Placement - in the corner of a room, highly traffic do you find the traffic stressed him out?
  • Location - Arizona desert
Current Problem -about a week ago, I mist him I the morning, he started running and eventually jumped off to the bottom of his cage. he stayed there for like 3 days only climbing upocasionally. he has stopped now, but I noticed that hes not the same, hes always with his mouth open and its not as "friendly" as he used to. hes back to normal as in he spends his days up and not down. I also noticed like some bumps or just fat back legs, almost to where his foot starts.
As stated previously we will need more pics in the AM when he wakes up and is horizontal not vertical. The angle is not ideal for a determination of anything.
a 18in

Input 120v 60Hz 0.3 AMPS will that lamp work? I’m trying to buy it from a guy on Craigslist, he says he had it on a savanah monitor
 

Thatwizard420

Avid Member
Here are some more pics of his legs
 

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