might be gravid?

[craig]

Hey everyone. Well i would think that my female wouldn't be gravid but the past 3 days she has been sitting in the pot of her plant. She is 4 mo old and i kept my male and female together for a couple monthes before. anyway, i introduced her into my males cage and yesterday and they mated. I don't know if they mated before and i know that it takes a few monthes before eggs develop. She isn't showing any gravid coloration nor did she show robins egg coloration before i bred her. An estimate of the ages are male-5mo and female-4mo and i know they are young but they still mated yesterday. I had veileds before and bred a couple and they never showed the gravid color but when it was pregnant and was ready to lay it showed the blue robins eggs. Here is a picture of her at the pot and one in my hand. SHe doesn't seem like she is full of eggs but do you think i should put her in a tub with dirt? she isn't very happy in these pics because she saw the camera.lol. Thanks. Craig.

 

[Cherron]

Are you sure she is only 4 months old? She looks pretty big for 4 months. If indeed this is an accurate age, breeding at 4 months isn't healthy for the chameleon at all. In fact, I would be surprised if they successfully bred at all at that age. Did you witness the actual act?

It puts a lot of stress on the chameleon's body to try to produce eggs while she herself is still growing. The calcium that should be going to her still growing bones ends up going to the eggs.

I have had veileds lay clutches without showing the classic gravid coloration. I just recently had one lay an infertile clutch without showing any signs of having eggs until a week or so before she laid.. and even then I was unsure until she started digging in her egg laying container.

Do you have an egg laying container in her enclosure? Is she still eating, drinking, pooping, basking?

 

[craig]

hey, thanks for the response. Yeah, she is 4mo old. I did witness him mounting her a few times. Does it look like she has eggs in her though? I know it takes a few monthes to produce but again today she is at the pot of the plant again. SHe is eating, pooping and iam misting the cage for her. I have a 6" round bowl in there for here but today i was thinking of putting her in my big tub i have an put abunch of sand in there. She is growing. Instead of giving her calcium a few times a week should i give it to her more? ALso, is it ok if the male has intercourse a few times? say for instance she mated yesterday, then i introduced them today and mated again? Just curious. Thanks again. Craig.

 

[Cherron]

I am not going to make a guess of whether or not she has eggs, but anytime that I suspect any of mine are gravid, I treat them as if they are. I would definitely put an egg laying container in the cage for her just in case. Make sure that it is big enough for her to have a few inches on all sides of her when she is in it and is deep enough to fit her entire body in if she dug into it.

When my females are gravid, I dust their feeders every feeding, but I am by no means an expert on this subject.

And I certainly wouldn't mate them again. At 4 months old you are risking your chameleon's health by breeding them.

Sorry I am not much help. I am sure someone will be by later that has much more experience with the subject.

 

[craig]

thanks Cherron, any info is helpful. What iam going to do is feed everyone now and after feeding iam going to put her in a bucket of sand. I will she if she lays anything and will keep you posted. Thanks. Craig.

 

[Tygerr]

thanks Cherron, any info is helpful.

You're supposed to get the info BEFORE you get the chams... BEFORE you decide to try breed them.

If you'd read up on any of the good chameleon information sites, you would surely have seen that it is not recommended to mate them when they're so young. You risk not only losing your female (or significantly shortening her life) due to the severe stress of producing eggs, but also of generating a rather poor quality clutch of eggs.

What you did was quite irresponsible, IMO.

However I do agree with Cherron when she says that the chameleon looks older than 4 months, and since you've already gone and done it now, you might as well try to get as much information as you can.

Read these:
- Breeding the Veiled Chameleon
- A Simple Nesting site
- Read before you breed
- Eggs: laying to hatching

and maybe even:
- The business of breeding

 

[craig]

I have breed veileds when I was 14 but now at 23 want to get into it again. I have books on the chams and it says at 4mos they can breed. I have never had one not show blue spots though and for the past 4 days she has been at the bottom of her tank. Right now I have her in a 2.5' diameter wound tub full of moist sand and seeing if she starts to lay. Its the same container that I had my other female veiled veiled that laid. Also, I didn't use an incubator last time but had them under a shaded table in my pool area in my pool. This time I will have an incubator though.

 

[Julirs]

craig-I know that you said you had bred Veileds before, but I do have to agree that 4 months is way too young. Books may say that they "can" breed at 4 months, but as in many animals (including humans), experienced breeders say it is much too young. Many people would call it irresponsible to risk your female. My female is 4 1/2 months old, and nearly 12" long (born Feb), but I plan to wait several more months before I breed her. I am puzzled as to why you think she is full of eggs, and of course even if you bred her yesterday the eggs will not be viable fertile eggs. Putting her in the sand bucket is probably going to stress her out to no end. Why not just put a good size container of sand to see if she wants to dig. By the way, how long is she?

 

[kinyonga]

Craig said..."i know that it takes a few monthes before eggs develop"...once they mate the eggs are usually ready to be laid in about a month....not several months.

You said..."she is at the pot of the plant again"...just because she is at the pot doesn't mean that she is gravid. If she were digging or even roaming around the cage looking for a site to lay the eggs, then I would say she was gravid and near egg-laying time.

You said"I have books on the chams and it says at 4mos they can breed"...some veileds are sexually mature at that age so technically they can reproduce....but it isn't something that has to be done. The book just means that they are physically able to reproduce at that age.

 

[craig]

thanks for the replys. Well I didn't think she was full of eggs but she kept staying at the bottom of the pot for 4 days and I put her outside and she was roaming on the bottom of that cage. I just never seen this behavior from her so was concerned. Yeah, that may be alittle young but she seems alittle big so thought it maybe ok to introduce them. I had her in the tub of sand today for alittle bit but did no digging so took her back out and put her in her tank. I will le t you know what happens are far as her behavior goes. Thanks.

 

[kinyonga]

I hope you are still going to leave a container in her cage to dig in so that if she does need to lay eggs she can show you.

Moving the female back and forth to the egglaying area and back to the cage is stressful. I usually let the female start to dig in the container in the cage and when she is intent on the digging, then I move mine to an egglaying bin....where I usually leave them until they lay the eggs. (There are exceptions, which you should learn as you gain experience.)

Watch for any signs of decline in health (sitting on the floor of the cage, sunken eyes, lethargic/inactive, etc.) because if she was already working on eggs before you mated her, and you missed the sometimes subtle signs (walking around looking for a place to lay egg, etc.) she could be heading towards eggbinding. It kind of worries me that she is sitting in the pot....but if she is active most of the time and just sits there to rest thats different.

 

[craig]

Thanks for the reply. yes, I still have a bowl of sand in there. SHe is still active and still eats alot. SHe eats more than my male veiled and my jacksons.lol