looking for second opinions

[Chameleons Northwest]

This is my Ambanja at 7 months old

Our Azure had that same greenish background when he was younger. Ambanjas definitely do come in a variety of shades and colors. From what I understand, this is especially true of the WC ambanjas, where the breeding is naturally selected and so not so controlled.

And here is a Nosy Be/Ambanja morph cross from the Kammer's Bilbo line. Almost none of the red came through to him. He is our Pegasus.

 

[Chameleon Nation]

The male Ambanja that "Addicted" has came from me. She purchased it from me back in May of 08. This was the first group of Ambanja's that I produced. If you purchased that male about 2 years ago, there is no way it came from me. I have a feeling I know the breeder that you got him from. She has mislabeled chameleons in the past. I am 100% sure that the one in your pic is an Ambanja. I had one that looked identical to yours, he was also the sire of "Addicted's" male. He too came from them same breeder as yours.

Yours looks very close to mine, being that we are both from ontario, I wouldnt be shocked if we got them from the same breeder.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

She has mislabeled chameleons in the past. I am 100% sure that the one in your pic is an Ambanja. I had one that looked identical to yours, he was also the sire of "Addicted's" male. He too came from them same breeder as yours.

I am confused by this statement. If you know the breeder has mislabeled in the past how are you 100% sure.

Maybe I misread , but it is a little confusing.

 

[dodolah]

I am also at one time experience this nosy be/ blue bar ambanja confusion.
I reconciled the puzzle by looking at the nose structure.

This is PURELY my opinion and i'm sure there are some exceptions...
Isn't ambanja's nose are more profound than nosy be and ambilobe?

from the look of it, i am guessing cristopherlaw's cham is an ambanja or (a mix with ambanja as the dominant side).
But, if the breeder has a reputation in mixing locale... i think you might have a valid concern there.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I am also at one time experience this nosy be/ blue bar ambanja confusion.
I reconciled the puzzle by looking at the nose structure.

This is PURELY my opinion and i'm sure there are some exceptions...
Isn't ambanja's nose are more profound than nosy be and ambilobe?
from the look of it, i am guessing cristopherlaw's cham is an ambanja or (a mix).

Look at my Nosy Be, he has the pronounced nose as well. That had me confused so I did not use that as identification.

The pic of his and my Nosy look really close to the same thing.

 

[dodolah]

Look at my Nosy Be, he has the pronounced nose as well. That had me confused so I did not use that as identification.

The pic of his and my Nosy look really close to the same thing.

could it be that your nosy is an ambanja?
Just trying to confuse you even more, Ryan... HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Not that it means too much , but my Nosy was produced my the Kammers and I know of three on the forum who have Nosy Be's from the same sire. (Fingon)

I am also taking the work of a breeder that mine is a Nosy Be, but it is consistent with Nosy Be's I have seen.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

could it be that your nosy is an ambanja?
Just trying to confuse you even more, Ryan... HAHAHAHAHA

I knew you were going to say that.

I was answering as you were typing.

 

[Pagan]

Wow! There sure are some beautiful chams in this thread!

 

[Chameleon Nation]

The mislabeling that I speak of happened a few years back at an expo. Her dispaly case was dropped on the floor and a bunch of baby Ambanja's and Maro's were scattered everywhere. They were all collected and put back into their dispaly cases.

Her customers purchased some of here babies thinking that they were Ambanja's. Because she couldn't tell which babies were which there was some that were mixed up. Needless to say that when some of her customers babies grew up they turned out to be Maro's. I should have specified LOL.

I am confused by this statement. If you know the breeder has mislabeled in the past how are you 100% sure.

Maybe I misread , but it is a little confusing.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

The mislabeling that I speak of happened a few years back at an expo. Her dispaly case was dropped on the floor and a bunch of baby Ambanja's and Maro's were scattered everywhere. They were all collected and put back into their dispaly cases.

Her customers purchased some of here babies thinking that they were Ambanja's. Because she couldn't tell which babies were which there was some that were mixed up. Needless to say that when some of her customers babies grew up they turned out to be Maro's. I should have specified LOL.

i got ya!. Thanks, I even know who you are talking about now.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

Chris, that looks like a Nosy Be to me, IMHO!

 

[christopherlaw]

Well, at best I am going to label these as just panther chameleons and interested buyers will be informed of the blood line and where the breeders came from.

There is a definate split in the rostral process which is MORE typically found on ambanja than on nosey be.

The breeders I aquired are F1s that were produced by WCs pulled in from the great island of Madagascar (nobody can state with complete certainty that the female you purchase from these storage plants is from the local that they claim).

The problem lies in the coloration and pattern of these guys. While I have seen a few ambanja that look like mine, I have also seen a few nosey be that look like mine. I can say that I have not seen many nosy be with as much red through them but hen Im sure one could make similar arguments going the other way.

I have a close relationship with the breeder I bought this stock from, and she has been very good at communicating with me.

"well I can see why people would say Nosy, but he does seem to have a prominant banding through the entire body (including legs) - I couldn't tell does he have a split in the tip of the rostral process? often Ambanja have that when Nosy's dont".

Ohh the problems with being a breeder.

Thanks everyone who has posted replies and offered input.

Like I said, at this point I will only advertise these as panthers and when interested parties inquire about local, I will inform them with the most honest answer I can "the adults were sold to me as blue barred ambanja, they came from WC stock so this is a new bloodline, here is a photo of the Sire and his clutch mate".

What else can I do

 

[addicted]

Yours looks very close to mine, being that we are both from ontario, I wouldnt be shocked if we got them from the same breeder.

The male Ambanja that "Addicted" has came from me. She purchased it from me back in May of 08. This was the first group of Ambanja's that I produced. If you purchased that male about 2 years ago, there is no way it came from me. I have a feeling I know the breeder that you got him from. She has mislabeled chameleons in the past. I am 100% sure that the one in your pic is an Ambanja. I had one that looked identical to yours, he was also the sire of "Addicted's" male. He too came from them same breeder as yours.

I was going to say...I don't think Drew would mix his up...I thought that your cham (christopherlaw) looked like an Ambanja too, just wanted to show mine to ease your mind...they do look a lot alike

 

[christopherlaw]

Not sure if this will sway peoples opinions but here is a photo from when he was about a 8 months old

 

[dodolah]

I do feel that it's an ambanja.
but, then again, I am never any good at guessing locale.

 

[addicted]

Here's a photo of my guy in his relaxed state (just finished basking), he's not as green but I can definitely see a resemblance

 

[Chameleon Nation]

Here is a pic of the Sire of "Addicted's" boy. This is a pure Ambanja. He was one of our breeders until I got out of Ambanja's. He has the same red lines in his face and even some of the same red barring beginning to show up. Also the large rostral appendage with the predominate split in the middle. Of all the panther locales that I have kept, Ambanja has the largest.

 

[christopherlaw]

Here is a pic of the Sire of "Addicted's" boy. This is a pure Ambanja. He was one of our breeders until I got out of Ambanja's. He has the same red lines in his face and even some of the same red barring beginning to show up. Also the large rostral appendage with the predominate split in the middle. Of all the panther locales that I have kept, Ambanja has the largest.

Thanks for the photos, they have reassured me that there IS a good chance that mine is ambanja.

Yours looks strikingly similar to mine, that much is for certain.

Chris