Kind of Important....

[Canopy Chameleons]

I posted this in my other thread, but I have a sense of urgency about this...
"Alright. We're on day 24, and I swear she's doubled in size since that picture. Well, maybe not doubled, but she's very noticeably bigger since yesterday morning... She's constantly drinking water, but still constantly dehydrated. She hasn't eaten in just about a week... Ugh. I'm hating seeing her like this, I think she might have too many eggs.
Now what the hell am I supposed to do. There is a ficus tree in there, with a deep pot, lots of soil. She checks it out, but I've never seen any evidence of her having dug at it. There's even blankets on her cage so that no one can see in or out, most of the time. I remove the front blanket to shower her down. The dripper is going all day long, she's getting 2-5 showers in her cage a day, and she's still dehydrated.

I really don't want to mess with her, cause she's still got a week left (possibly), but should I try to put her into a separate nesting site? Or will the stress be too much... I haven't had to deal with one THIS big, and this dehydrated. She can barely get around her cage anymore.

I'm probably just being a worry wart."

Okay, She let me grab her to try and give her some water, so I snapped a couple pictures:

Thanks so much for any and all help.

 

[Heika]

Wow, her body form looks good, but she sure is dehydrated. Or, her eyes are sunken from stress or trauma. Honestly, I would run her by the vet. That is not normal. She went off her feed too early, too. Something is up.. it could be that she is carrying too many eggs, but I think that you are probably at that point where if you don't get her to the vet, things could get ugly really fast.

Heika

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

That's what I was afraid of.. Last time I took one of my critters to our 'herp vet', he killed it. 200% his fault too. It was an ameiva. Her hydration is looking a bit better... I might have to find a vet somewhere, cause I don't trust our Quack to handle something like this. I'll figure something out though, I might have to take a day off this week and make the 3 hour trip.

This is frustrating. I wish you could actually see her, I can see/feel eggs way too far up, in both directions. I think there's for sure 50 minumum eggs. It's scary for her, I feel bad. I even cut back her food a month or two before I bred her.

Thanks, hopefully she'll pull through this.

 

[Brandy]

you can try some liquid calcium (any pharamacy has it give a little every day .3cc) to try and unduce contraction. her eyes look bad she looked good int he previous posts but that is a drastic and very worrysome change. Id recomend a vet as well.

 

[lele]

When I had Luna she would stop eating for weeks leading up to developing eggs (infert) right on thru until laying. She was always a tad dehydrated (eyes and casque not quite as severe as yours). She would get showers, sat under her dripper and humidifier, the cage is wrapped on 3 sides with shower curtains. She always managed to get them out but she had a separate laying tub right in her enclosure. I know some dig "test" holes, but Luna would dig only when she was serious about laying.

You can try some pedialyte to see if it helps with her water absorption and retention. Have the vet do an ultrasound to see how many and location of eggs. There are several sites for vets by state:

http://www.exoticpetvetfinder.com/

The Association of Reptilian and Amphibian Veterinarians (ARAV)
http://www.arav.org/[/B]
Articles and listings of vets in your area

Vet listings by state
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html#vetlist[/B]

Vet Connection
"http://www.herpvetconnection.com/[/B]
Real people experiences - has state listing

 

[TreelionsUK]

get her to the vets ASAP and get her induced the vet will give her oxytocin to get things rolling,i really do hope she is ok,but if she dies i would have the vet remove the eggs

Luke

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

Thanks for the replies guys, but I forgot to mention, I'm Canadian, from the prairies of all things, so there's only 3 qualified vets, in all of Alberta. I called one clinic this morning, adn they said that they can't get her in until next week. I have a feeling that it's going to be a common response. The herp vets around here only work with reptiles because there's money in it, they don't actually care. The clinic I talked to even said that they won't do Emerg calls for Reptiles. So frustrating. I'm actually in contact now with a real good Chameleon breeder (well, he was anyways) and he's walking me through this step by step.

Thanks for the good suggestions, She will be getting liquid calcium and electrolytes daily. Oh, by the way is there a good way to get her to take the calcium??
As for a vet, I'm hoping that one will see her soon, but it's not looking promising. Wish her and I luck, I guess..

Thanks
Jaz

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

Alright. I gave her .3-ish cc's of liquid calcium, and I gave her .4 cc's of Gatorade. But she's been gasping all morning, like there's eggies pushing up against her lungs, her tail isn't really that prehensile anymore, it's bony and just a tail. I was holding her in my hand and she kind of sat down and closed her eyes. She started to slip off my hand, so I supported her for a couple seconds, then she kind of snapped to it. I'm starting to freak out about this. I've never had gestation go this bad... with myself or any of my animals. So sudden too, she was just fine on day... 22 I think. Now she's turned for the worse.

Is there anything left to do? None of the vets around here will take her soon enough. They want to get her in at the earliest next Wednesday.

Jaz

 

[TreelionsUK]

Jaz i would enjoy your last moments with her(sorry to be blunt)i think its far too late for her sorry hun
what you described,eggs pushing up on her lungs is correct,they produce loads of egg's in captive care,often because of over feeding.
I dont know how you would deal with this but i would say save the babies by means of cutting her open(sorry again)but at least she will live on,if your gonna do it dont wait too long or they will go bad inside her

All the best luke

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

That's kind of what I was afraid of. You know how most people have that one favorite of their collection? She's mine. Cadaver is my baby girl, well, she's not too much of a baby anymore, but she was defienetly one of my favorite critters to deal with. I always though that it was my Jackson's, but now that I'm faced with this, I don't think I would be this upset if it was any other chameleon in my house. I love them all, don't get me wrong, but she's great. Even friendly.

A local breeder that worked with chams for 10+ years is helping me out with this now, he's stopping by tomorrow to have a look at her. But we're pretty sure that she's 'expired'. He's also going to cut the eggs out for me.

Thanks for the help,
Jaz

 

[Heika]

Even a regular vet should be able to remove the eggs for you and hopefully not kill her. Since you are looking at certain death if someone comes over and removes them for you, I would take my chances with the local vets and get them out under anaesthesia and then have her stitched back up. Or, it is possible they could give her a shot to induce early labor so she lays them. Any possibility of getting on the phone and begging?

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

I could beg, but I think I worded myself wrong. He won't remove the eggs until she passes. If she does. We're hoping to save her, no matter what. But, I also have to look at the possibility of her death, and what to do is she does die. I'm still trying to find a vet that can look at her, but it's not looking too promising.

 

[lele]

Canadians...

I am so sorry to hear how bad things have gotten for you and your girl. My heart truly goes out to you.

There are several folks here who live in Canada, so you may want to post a new thread recruiting "neighbors" and see if someone lives near you who might be able to help you out. I know you have this breeder guy coming by, but other support may be available, too.

Here is another vet list for Alberta which was just updated in April. http://www.anapsid.org/vets/canalberta.html

Thinking of you both

lele

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

Thanks Lele, I actually didn't even know that link existed. There's some different Dr.'s on there, so I'll give it a try. I've been making some phone calls as well, people in the area that could lend me a hand with her. I'm really hoping she pulls through this okay. I didn't think it would be this rough on me, having her in this bad of shape. Thanks for the support. I'm putting her into her nesting site again today, so I'll keep updating.

Thanks again.
Jaz

 

[kinyonga]

You said that the one vet wouldn't be able to see her for a week....IMHO she needs help NOW and a week will be too late...if she is as bad as I think she is she might not have more than a day or two. I hate having to say this and I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

I completely agree with you Kinyonga, it's more than frustrating. I'm doing all I can, but I can only do so much. I'm giving her extra water and electrolytes every 2-ish hours, and it's not even helping. I'm calling my vet in the morning though, he might have do it. Hopefully he will anyways, make him do an emergency call or something. I just want to help her.. but it's no avail. I think it should be mandatory for there to be a herp vet available in all areas where reptiles are kept. Cause this is bullcrap. If I would have known that I wouldn't have a vet available to me if I need one, I don't think that I would be doing as much with reptiles.

This is so frustrating. I've hit such a wall.

 

[kinyonga]

Its definitely not easy finding a good reptile vet.

I realize that you are up against a wall....I just wish I could tell you how to get her through this. I'm worried about her gasping lack of good breathing.

Did she dig at all? Does she dig if you put her in the egglaying container? Have you tried digging a hole and putting her in it?

 

[Canopy Chameleons]

She's back in her container right now actually, maybe I should dig a hole for her... good call. Maybe it will help, cause she's really really weak. She hasn't dug at all, not even to test out the sand. I'll go do that and see what happens I guess.

 

[Fate X]

is she still climbing and perching? because i went through a similar experience with my veiled,if i was you i would give her water and liquid calcium to get her strength back first. you are looking at about 9-10 injections of oxytocin the vet will give the first one then show you how to give them to her,you give then over 2-3 days. she gotta be somewhat strong though. we waited 3 days before using the oxytoxin and i can tell you she got much stronger over those 3 days of water and calcium.

then she dropped over 50 eggs over 3 days 4-7 at a time sometimes more or less. see when they get the shot its almost instant they start dropping for up to i think it was 3 hrs. then i would give her another dose then repeat the process.

what you gotta do is focus on getting her healthy over the weekend.
you gotta really put in some serious time ,i misted mine 3-4 times a day 20mn. each session.

i used a plastic syringe to give her water.and you should have something like carnivour care to give her.


my vet said it was ok to mix the liquid calcium with water i think that helped too.

i think i gave mine 3-4 drops of calcium a day until she laid all her eggs.

 

[kinyonga]

Puritania...how's your chameleon doing?